<p>I am sure the top quarter of a Caltech graduating class has their pick of prominent graduate schools and lucrative empoyment opportunities with well-known companies. But what about the rest, what about the bottom quarter, what are their options upon graduation? Are they struggling to find employment, are leading graduate schools like Stanford, MIT or Caltech totally out of the question for them?</p>
<p>Your best chance for a graduate school if you're in the bottom 1/4 is probably Caltech. If you've been doing research while an undergrad, you might have been able to build up a good relationship with a professor that could try to put in a good word for you.</p>
<p>Thanks RR. What about employment, do Caltech graduates with lower GPA have a hard time finding their first jobs or are they still heavily recruited?</p>
<p>If you're in the bottom quarter of a Caltech graduating class there's virtually no way you'd be going to a top ten grad school outside of Caltech (and if your GPA were really that low, I doubt you'd be able to get one here either... your research would have to be really, really good). That's also true of being in the bottom quarter of any academic institution. </p>
<p>I think many grad schools and employers realize we are harder than similar institutions, but considering half of our students have a 3.2 and above (or below), bottom quarter's going to put you at a B- average or lower (2.66). It's not going to be easy to get a job.</p>
<p>The flip side of this is that I don't know anyone who works their ass off and has a B- or lower average. If you are able to work hard and deal with the workload (i.e. not burn out) I wouldn't worry about being in the bottom quarter.</p>
<p>Edit: btw right now my friend is incredibly upset about his GPA... he has a 3.4. I told him he should be happy. I think the much bigger problem than students coming in and getting bad grades is students coming in and getting good grades and thinking they are horrible. Please don't come to Caltech and expect an A average. If you get it, fantastic. Most people don't.</p>
<p>EditEdit: It's hard to answer this question superaccurately since we don't really talk about GPAs here at Caltech. I know the GPA of my best friend and my roommate--that's it. I have a general idea of academic performance of people I know, but that's it.</p>
<p>Thanks lizzardfire.</p>
<p>Just to explain where I am coming from, it's not me, it's my D who was accepted to Caltech. She is a very bright girl, took hardest possible classes in High School, excellent grades, very high SATs, multiple APs, excellent work habits etc.</p>
<p>Yet HS is HS and Caltech is Caltech, she is very bright and hard-working but she is not a "genius" and we are both concerned that hard work alone in a place where everyone works hard is simply not going to be enough to keep her in the first half of the class, that while undoubtedly she'll be able to graduate she may still be struggling and getting relatively low grades no matter how hard she tries. </p>
<p>Frankly In that case it would make more sense for her to go to our state college (with full ride) where she will undoubtedly be among the best and have excellent graduate school prospects.</p>
<p>In other words we are still undecided, your assurance that hard work should suffice to keep her in the top half of the class is certainly helpful and reassuring.</p>
<p>It helps if you pick the appropriate major for yourself. I'm a chemical engineering major, but if I had decided to be a math major, I'm pretty sure all the hard work in the world wouldn't be able to get me into the top half of the class. So make sure you pick something you're relatively good, and have the interest in to do the work.</p>
<p>I disagree with Lizzardfire that if you graduate in the bottom quarter of the Caltech class it will be "hard to find a job"--off the top of my head I can think of people who fit that category and landed jobs at Google. Synaptics, SIG...many of them after taking 5+ years to graduate.
As for grad school- the only grades (Ph.D type) grad schools care about are from classes related to your major- many (for example) bio majors struggle mightily and scrape by with C's in core math and physics, but by doing better in their major classes and getting involved in research manage to get into top grad schools. Most of what makes Caltech tough is not that upper-level classes in a given major are tougher than corresponding classes at peer schools (the material may be harder, but the grading usually isn't) but that the Core forces you to take classes in your weak areas. On the other hand, it can also show you what you're good at, and this is NOT always evident from high school performance. When I entered Tech I didn't think I would be able to major in math b/c I totally sucked at math competitions in high school-but I did well in the major, and got into most top 10 Ph.D programs. On the other hand, some international olympiad winners flamed out. Most people who flame do so not because they lack talent but because they lose focus.
But if you are truly doing poorly in your major despite putting in your best effort-thats probably a good indication that you'd be better off not going to grad school in that subject- better finding it out in college than as a fourth year Ph.D student. There are quite a few people who after graduating near the bottom of their class take a year or two off to work and reevaluate their goals, and subsequently apply and get into top Ph.D programs in other fields.
So in short a)As a high school student admitted to Caltech you are in no position to compare your abilities relative relative to other students at Tech--90% of students here think they are below average, and you are probably smarter than you think.
b)Even if you do end up struggling, the decision to go to Caltech vs some other school is unlikely to cost you opportunities in the long run.</p>
<p>5+ years to graduate and bottom quarter (GPA wise) aren't necessarily the same. Still, I am sure that your information is as accurate as mine is, but I can only base mine off of the people I know in those situations, and given my very different major it doesn't surprise me that you've seen different experiences. I attempted to kind of say this with my edit about "not being able to be superaccurate". I have a relatively limited data set here.</p>
<p>I still think that the majority of people in the bottom quarter of the class have to struggle to find good employment. I don't know many of them who are unemployed, but I do know a ton who are not working at a place they really want to be. </p>
<p>On the flip side, I totally agree with your other statements, happyentropy. </p>
<p>Denniso--if your daughter is a) hard-working (legitimately, not just "gets As in high school") b) got into Caltech and c) wants to do the extra work required by going to Caltech, I would be very surprised if she did not do well academically. You say that she is "not a genius" but is just "smart and hardworking". I'd rather have the latter than the former any day. It might interest you to do some research into Alfred Binet. He tracked children with incredibly high IQs over long periods of time and found that above a certain IQ score IQ was absolutely not correlated with success. I find it interesting anyway. </p>
<p>Last thing--HappyEntropy--I met your brother at PFW. He seems pretty cool.</p>