<p>I will have my ears open to hear any stories from DD, she was stunned at the thought that someone in power over her would even consider physical contact. Her school program seems to be pretty progressive, lots of doc & resident review students, students review doc, etc. I am thinking they may have set up this system to protect people from exactly what is being discussed.</p>
<p>+1. I do appreciate the heads-up. Gave me an opp to talk to my kid (MS3). She blew it off, of course, but she’ll be more aware and that’s all I wanted anyway.</p>
<p>My H graduated from med school in 1986 and I have never heard him tell of older docs slapping or hitting students or residents. I can’t believe that would be allowed. Rotations and residency were definitely abusive during his time, but to my recollection the abuse was not allowing them enough sleep, being given nonstop scut work, and incidents of verbal humiliation. I’m sure there are plenty of power driven jerk doctors out there, but I refuse to believe it is as common as this thread makes it sound.</p>
<p>I have talked to my neighbor doc and he doesn’t recall any instances of “physical-ness” and he went to Southwestern in the 80’s. </p>
<p>As far as the verbal “abuse”, folks - I went to a law school that had prof’s aptly named mad-dog and snake. :eek: Some crying occurred in class and a good bit in the hall or at home but we didn’t think of it as “abuse”. It might have been “abuse” and it dang sure wasn’t pleasant, but…we all survived. I took to wearing a lot of “tan” and would sit against a tan wall and try not to move a muscle in an effort to blend into the background. Worked unless he was coming down the row. Heck. I think I just pee’d a little thinking about it. 
</p>
<p>But again. We survived. </p>
<p>Get tough. Be prepared. Recognize it’s comin’ and let it be like water off a duck’s back. Have faith in yourself and your skills. The courtroom and operating room are no place for fragile egos. As always, jmo.</p>
<p>D just called. She has not experienced OR heard reports of slapping/hitting. I am thankful for that. </p>
<p>By the way, Curmudgeon, school lifetime record for fouling out? Love her!</p>
<p>Yeah, maybe I just went to a medical school (and residency) that took things like this seriously, but if anyone had ever hit a student or resident, the problem would have been fixed. Immediately. And the problem would not have been the student. Again, this would have been seen as completely unacceptable behavior and I (and I think all of my classmates) would have felt comfortable reporting it.</p>
<p>I think that at least now, the vast, vast majority of students are not having to deal with outright physical abuse.</p>
<p>I spoke with my H about this topic. He has never seen a doctor hit or slap a student or resident and can’t imagine where it would be tolerated. He shared two stories of verbal “dressing downs” in front of peers. One was just a mean doctor with a bad reputation of picking on students, no teaching involved. The second one was a doctor being mean, but there was a teaching component to it, one that he remembers to this day. Other than that, he didn’t feel too verbally abused.</p>
<p>It is good to hear that the medical schools may be taking steps to reduce the worst forms of abuse. I will say that the last case that I was aware of where a senior resident physically abused an intern the program director called us all together and told us that they had seriously considered dismissing the senior resident from the program but felt that it was too harsh to end someone’s medical career over one incident and instead suspended him for three days and placed an official letter of reprimand for “unprofessional behavior” in his permanent file. This was significant in that it was the first case I was aware of where any punishment had been levied against an abuser.</p>
<p>While it sounds like no more than a slap on the wrist, and that is what I thought at the time and did not like it, now that I am a practicing physician I realize that sanction probably created a lot of problems for the senior resident after his residency. When he applied for a renewal of his license to practice medicine it would have to be reported to the state medical board and if he moved to any other state and applied for a license to practice medicine it would have been disclosed as well. When he applied for malpractice insurance he had to disclose it and I do not think insurance companies would be anxious to take on someone with a known record of unprofessional behavior. When he applied for hospital priviledges at any hospital he would have to disclose it. The same is true in regard to getting a DEA certificate to prescribe controlled substances and becoming a member of a provider network. In every case he would have to explain himself and hope for the best.</p>
<p>My D is now an M4 and did not experience anything like this sort of bullying or unprofessional treatment of med students in her 3rd year rotations. I am rather shocked by this. She has been treated professionally and courteously by all the drs. she has worked with, probably 25-30 in all. Many have taken extra time with her and helped her a lot. A couple of nurses have been cranky to her, but that’s all. </p>
<p>She was also treated very well in her surgery rotation by all the drs. and residents and in fact was encouraged to go into surgery by multiple drs. and residents, and specifically encouraged to apply to their residency program. Maybe her hospital is a lot more progressive or enlightened? I have not heard about any yelling or unkind treatment.</p>
<p>D (only M2) has not experienced any bad treatment coming from any doc. She did not have as much exposure as M4s, but she had considerable exposure. As I have mentioned, her negative experience is with fellow students in her class, the type of people that she always avoided all thruout her life, but now she has no control over her group, and she is very glad that she was exposed to different type of personalities. She will have to overcome this every time it happens as it affects her deeply when it happens, but she is at least aware of it. Some people just have a natural (or earlier learned) defense to ignore it, she does not have it.</p>
<p>This is cause for concern because when you get to MS3 and start doing rotations your classmates are pretty much your only support system during this difficult year. None of the attendings or residents will know you or have any reason to be favorably disposed towards you or feel any empathy with you which often leads to poor treatment of you at their hands. On the hospital floors your fellow MS3s are the only people around who know you, might have reason to care about you and you could empathize with you. They are the ones who are going to support you when you hit a rough patch and help you when you are overwhelmed. They are the only ones who know what you are going through because they are in the same situation and need your support at times.</p>
<p>The bonds I established and friendships I forged with with my classmates during the two preclinical year were invaluable to me in getting through third year rotations.</p>
<p>^^exactly as my daughter is finding out. The ms3 students do the rotations in different order and they usually keep a list of do’s and don’ts for the other students and which doctors to watch out for.</p>
<p>D. has lots of friends, she is very outgoing, but she is also selective. She has negative experience and she will keep it in mind. Some people are simply more sensitive than others and again they have been more self-protective of themselves and very selective in a past in regard to their “crowd”. They pay for that later on. This is just another fact of life.</p>
<p>some interesting articles on doctors and burnout:[DOTmed.com</a> - Almost half of U.S. docs report burnout: study](<a href=“http://www.dotmed.com/news/story/19355]DOTmed.com”>Almost half of U.S. docs report burnout: study)</p>