@onette - here in CA it’s been years since seniors felt comfortable applying to a reach and a safety. My older D applied for college 6 years ago (non-MT) to 6 schools and she applied to fewer than anyone she went to school with. I did have one friend (in MN) whose son applied to only 3 schools two years ago (1 reach, 2 safeties) so some areas are different. From where I sit the craziness in performing arts apps is just an amplified microcosm of the craziness in overall college applications.
@beepbeeplettuce6 & @BloomingGirl Stay positive and stay in touch with the WL schools you are interested in. Four years ago my older daughter came off 4 or 5 waitlists in April… one of them on April 30th! This year may be later because of the virus but if you periodically let them know you are still interested, it’s your top choice, etc, it helps… There also may be some families who decide not to send their children to school next year so more spots than usual could open up. Nothing is normal right now.
@BenniesMom1 WOW!!! I did not know WVU was a cut program! I can’t imagine why they would do that when they are trying to build a new program?? My D got an acceptance on a digital audition. They seemed like they really want students. She has already declined the WVU offer for other reasons, but I’m super surprised and disappointed to hear that. Thanks for sharing.
@SingerDancerMom – yeah, I was surprised to read that about WVU too. Crazy
I don’t think WVU is a cut program. We’ve been talking with them and the BFA Acting Program has an assessment after sophomore year to continue in the program. This is not really a true cut program, rather the evaluation to make sure participant grades, goals, and performance/commitment is on track. According to the school, over 90% of students continue on in the program. MT does not have this same assessment criteria.
@StanfordAI2019 I think my D and yours are similar in that they dived into this game later than most. My D decided to purse MT after her sophomore year so she had trained less than 2 years by the time she submitted her pretty raw prescreen materials.
15 schools applied, all prescreens passed except for one, 1 acceptance and 1 waitlist. The CC stat is true in that 1 acceptance per 10 schools applied. My D got technically 1.5 acceptances out of 15 applications! ?
She is waitlisted with PPU which she is leaning toward but hasn’t been able to visit yet. Your D has quite a few waitlists so I pray that your D and mine come off of their list and attend their top choice school! Hang tight!
Unless the students we spent the day with, all MT students from my son’s school, some currently at WVU and a couple of others there for an audition, are not telling the true tale, it’s definitely a cut program. I’m not sure what the definition of “cut program” really is but as I understand it, and from asking about where one of his previous school mates were, they were CUT from the program cause they didn’t “make the grade”, so to speak, their sophomore year. I asked for clarification, and one of the girl’s roommates, was now in a different major because she was CUT from the MT program the previous year. I’d go with what the students say over what the school says in this case. Apparently they have a specific # they want, but accept a few more in the freshman class with the understanding that you COULD be cut. If the school is saying 90% of the students continue, that means potentially 10% were CUT, no?
VERY disappointing indeed !! Sounded like it was an up and coming program where they WOULDN’T do that but first hand knowledge says they do. What’s super disappointing this year is that my kid’s friend, who is a freshman there and was one of our “stars” at the Performing Arts High School he attends, snagged a lead in their Spring musical (Head over Heels which I had never heard off so was looking forward to it) which was supposed to be on April 23rd/24th. A bunch of us from here is DE had gotten tickets to go down there to see her (yikes… I just remembered too that her family had bought those totally non-refundable airline tickets .?.. we were planning on driving so no loss)… Soooo excited that as a Freshman, she got a lead already. We were all so proud, like we had something to do with it. ??Incidentally, her roommate, also a Theater major at my kid’s school last year, (they have to audition to get in that very competitive program at his high school as well… I think they do 6 and 6 ) opted OUT of continuing in MT when she heard that it WAS a cut program. She didn’t want to deal with the stress, I guess. Can’t say I blame her. And while it may be only a small amount of people that get cut, it’s still very disappointing. If the SCHOOL tells you 90% move on, you can safely say that it’s likely that over 10% are cut. Even if it’s 1 person, that’s one too many .? That being said, the MT kids we hung out with that day all absolutely LOVE the program and couldn’t say enough good things about it!! Very tight knit group too.
IMO - needing to pass juries or assessments to continue in the program does not necessarily make a school a “cut” program - lots of programs have that kind of requirement. That’s really a check to make sure the students are putting in the effort required. Fullerton admits freely but has a set number of students they will allow to progress. That means even if you’ve put in the work and progressed sufficiently you might be cut because you’re not viewed to be as good as the person next to you. By the time they have a junior class they have cut the class down to 10-12 people, meaning they will have eliminated 85% of the students who entered as freshmen.
Agree with @CaMom13 – there is absolutely a difference between “cut” program and “juries.” Back in the old days, there were MANY cut programs. I am not saying none exist anymore, but it’s very rare. Students will be cut for many reasons, including attitude, accountability, responsibility, class and rehearsal attendance, effort, etc. (in addition to growth). I have said this before and I know it is difficult for some to hear, but it is HARD for artists to be a big fish in a small-to-mid-sized pond and then go be the small fish in a small-to-mid-sized (or much larger) pond. With artistic kids, sometimes they don’t bring with them the organization and maturity they need to be successful. So, this is often a wakeup call. I know a very talented sweet and amazing kid I have worked with in the past who almost lost his spot this year at what any of you would call a “top 10” program. Not saying where, but his mom told me, he skipped a LOT of one particular class because he already knew the material and it was at 8 am. The time didn’t work for him. Time to adult, kids!! I am glad they gave him a second chance, but hopefully it was a wakeup call. Schools usually provide a warning or have a conference with the student before resorting to a “cut.” Sometimes, they take their artistic scholarship or reduce it. This is not new. But it is trying to teach them how to function in the real world. In a professional environment, they need to know this.
And just to pile on - lol - and at the risk of making myself unpopular I take issue with the idea that even one student not allowed to continue in a program is too many. This isn’t “everybody plays” junior theatre. These programs are pre-professional, the idea is every MT graduate should be ready to go out and find work as a performing artist. They can’t do that if they don’t progress in school sufficiently. Our kids go through this brutal application process so they can be with fellow artists who are dedicated and hard-working. As @onette says - some students may not be up to that challenge, some come out of HS so used to excelling that they won’t put the required work in. Programs should set clear standards for what students must do to continue on in the major and I think most do so. I don’t think that’s a negative at all.
I agree with @CaMom13. There is nothing more frustrating to my kid than the few in the program that don’t put in the work. They all see each others performances over and over, and they know who’s taking the notes (coaching) and who’s putting forth the same performance time after time rather than improving. They have juries (they call them demos), but long before they get to the jury, if things aren’t going well in a class, they know. The student gets a mid-semester report and has a discussion with the teacher for the class that is not in good standing. They can then put in the work or not. I think they’ve lost a total of 5-6 kids from his original class of 35. A couple of those were for mundane reasons that weren’t related to the program. A couple failed a class and either left school or changed majors. Oh - and by the way - failing is anything less than a C+.
Although the specifics of the process and requirements may be different, I think you’ll find that most if not all BFA programs will have drop off for these reasons that wouldn’t be considered a “cut”.
a waitlist from syracuse for me. that makes three waitlists, six nos, and zero yeses. for right now the plan is to go to umichigan honors, do all the non-major theatre stuff with a minor in theatre/dance, and maybe try a transfer in second semester if there’s a drop or maybe sophomore year. keep fingers crossed for an update on one of those waitlists.
Oh @bwguy979 - We’ll need to start a WL vibes chain this year! That’s so frustrating… but I’ll hope hard that at least one of those WLs clears. Are the three WLs at programs you would love to attend?
@BloomingGirl Wait and see! Those WLs can easily turn into offers. We know several kids that ended up at their “dream schools” last minute. Hang in there- there will be a lot of movement in the next month or so!
It’s not a negative IF that’s what happens all the time. And kids who are not putting in the work SHOULD be cut. Those are not the kids I’m talking about at all. Let’s just say, that EVERYBODY puts in the work, puts in the time or what have you, meets or exceeds the standards set to continue, but because the school has already SET an amount they want to continue on… (making room for the next class? whatever reason they have those #s) they have to cut somebody regardless, right? Then they end up cutting one of the the ones who did everything right, but the least amount of everything right? THAT’s the one I think is too many. It’s already VERY competitive getting in, as you stated, so if they went through all it took to get in and the school thought they were good enough, met/exceeded the standards to continue on, but the program says we HAVE to let 1 or 2 go to hit some arbitrary, in my opinion, # of students continuing on( hard for the instructors too, I’m sure… making that decision)… then that’s a harsh CUT. Again, this is just info I gleaned from talking to the kids IN the program. They see it the same way (at least it appeared that they did) as I do and were all super sad to see one of their “good” classmates let go knowing that it could have been ANY of them. Survival of the fittest, I guess, as it is in the real world.
Just gathering info, since I’ll be going through this with my niece next year so this conversation is helpful… just incase you were wondering.
@CaMom13 two of my waitlists (syracuse and indiana) were two of my top three choices for mt… the other one i’d probably stay at michigan but who knows what my answer will be tomorrow
My D is on two waitlists - one, UMiami, is her very top choice, and the other choice would also make her happy. She also has one BFA MT yes, 10 no’s and is still waiting on one school(?!).
She does not feel like her one yes is a fit for her, which is frustrating (and for us it is not a great fit financially). She seems down and said she feels bad she isn’t excited about her yes but said she has tried and she really can’t see herself there. She told me that she can’t imagine any of these waitlists will move enough to help her so I should not get my hopes up. But all I have is hope right now!!
I know you all understand… @BloomingGirl @bwguy979 my fingers and toes are crossed for you!
We know this boy too. So happy for him!!
@BenniesMom1 - if they’re only cutting 10% of the class on average you can be pretty sure they aren’t culling for only the very best talent. Even in a competitive college environment there’s some variation in talent but a large variation in work ethic. If the admissions dept did a good job and all the kids in the program have high potential then with a fairly low rate of kids eliminated from the class I would put money on it being the slackers who failed the juries. In a less competitive admissions environment it might be that some kids really don’t have what it takes and the faculty is voting with their jury decision to eliminate them - that is harsher but not entirely unfair.
The question really to me that separates a fair jurying process from a “cut program” is - are they deciding who goes on based upon individual progress, a certain objective performance level or a certain class size. That last one is the harshest. I don’t know if you’ve seen Spring Awakening but the triggering event in Moritz’s suicide is being cut from school and it was done despite his best efforts because the school had too many students pass their exams. Now that’s a cut program! And that goes beyond the line of quality control and into the realm of uncaring toxicity.
BTW, I am not really saying all schools should jury - my kid’s doesn’t and I’m happy! I think that it adds extra stress the kids don’t need. But I do think programs need to be able to tell students they aren’t moving on in the major if sufficient effort and progress isn’t made - otherwise the schools aren’t being fair to the other students and to the students themselves. It’s a rough job market - allowing people to pay tuition if they aren’t making the grade isn’t doing them any favors. There are programs out there that will not kick students out and afterwards some students say they “wasted their time” there and blame the school! That’s lose-lose in my book.
Those are both amazing programs @bwguy979 ! Glad you have a great fallback, too!