Many schools have to open on campus or will be forced to close permanently. Especially schools that have a low financial grade from that Forbes magazine list of “D” or below.
Those small schools (usually) rely on tuition and room and board to stay open especially if they don’t have big endowments. Add to that; they are now facing costly lawsuits from current students claiming that the online learning does not warrant tuition.
A class action lawsuit was filed this week by students at Boston University who want more money back due to their perceived failure of the online learning. One aspect is they timed the lectures that professors gave online and are complaining that they were usually way shorter. They also want money returned due to activity fees etc. it’s another financial hit for schools. Suffice it to say they are highly motivated to open. My child’s teacher has a spouse at Northwestern who is a dean who antidotally said most colleges will go to on campus on the fall.
Just my opinion but I see this as good news all our kids who have suffered a terrible loss this senior spring.
PS: Food for thought the financial aid given to university’s from the Governments Covid Relief package was very specific that the schools were to give relief money as scholarships to very low income candidates. I assume this means at BFA programs as well.
@Dance3Looks3 - It’s interesting because some schools like BW keep a very deep WL and others like Elon claim they have none - so this may make schools reevaluate that practice.
I did just read in the WSJ that all schools are going deeper into their WL this year. It’s not just an MT thing, so I am guessing this is COVID related more than the common pre-screen.
And yes! @prarie - I heard that too - according to the WSJ article this semester on-line costs these schools big-time. Also, not being able to accept as many international students who pay full price up-front. Even Harvard is working through its endowment fairly quickly. So there is serious motivation to get these kids on campus for the fall. Let’s hope so…
Not to quibble but I don’t think Harvard is working through their endowment. Harvard has operating expenses of 800 million a year and an endowment of 40 billion. Schools at that level of wealth can afford to take a year - or two or more - without receiving any tuition income. The less elite schools (and that’s most private colleges and universities) are going to struggle - for the middle tier their struggle is not to use their endowment as doing so will affect their future income and their future. For the bottom tier (speaking financially, not in terms of education) the struggle is just to survive. It’s pretty grim.
@DivaStageMom- just as an FYI per Vicky Bussert at BW they waitlist by type, most say they don’t do that ( or don’t admit it) she told us at the parent meeting 2-3 kids wait list per type, not sure thats what I would call " deep" in the whole music conservatory last year they stated that they had 89 on the WL and offered slots to 3 people ( we know that it was more this year as far as offers in this crazy year). worth noting as well historically BW has about half its incoming class as minorities and as we know the tippy top schools are all pushing hard for a more diverse class so that might explain a bit more on the WL??
One Monday about 3/4 weeks ago BW “dismissed”
half their waitlist. Then there was a invited zoom call with three of their staff members including Vikki with what they labeled their priority wait list about two weeks ago- there were about 6 kids including mine on that call.
@mamaboyz - thats whats so interesting, not big numbers at all… we were never told we were on a priority list of any kind & got the offer this week. like everything else in this process hard to figure it all out
posted this else where but figured could help someone here as well…
we have a good friend, a female, who got an email from BOCO yesterday telling her to check her portal…she was offered a spot off the wait list, so things continue to move!!
Regarding offers out of the blue, this message board has variously discussed the NACAC antitrust consent decree. In this brave new world, it really will be everyone for themselves.
This binding agreement removes college recruiting ethics rules
-establishing uniform reply date of May 1.
Colleges could conceivably give a much shorter decision period as some have hinted at in their offers and anecdotally we have heard here on this board.
-prohibiting incentives for early decision applicants.
It has classically been prohibited to incentivize students to apply ED because the ED application rules are binding. This will also impact the admission pools as applying to multiple schools ED (against the present norm) may also become common. I am not a lawyer, but given the spirit of this consent deceee, I would think that as far as the Justice Dept is concerned there is no reason that ED should be binding
-prohibiting poaching committed and even enrolled students.
So schools can continue to pursue, sweeten the pot, etc as we see anecdotal stories of colleges already doing. As they get declines, colleges can decide to get a second or third bite at the apple with their admitted students or decide to move to their WL’s. Some of them have already figured this out. Others are behaving more like the old system where “no means no.”
You can thank the US Justice Dept. for making this all about the $$$ and not the “quaint notions” of fairness, respect, ethics, and commitments. ?
My understanding is that the current NACAC Rules of Ethics and Professional Practices maintains the reply date of May 1 unless using an Early Decision application process.
Any news on Emerson waitlist? Does anyone know if they have a lot of students on the waitlist?
S&P recently downgraded the outlook for 127 colleges and universities as a result of ongoing Covid-19 complication and economic challenges. This is many times a precursor to a ratings downgrade. Some institutions widely discussed on this board are on the list.
The big jump is getting knocked below BBB- which moves their obligations from ‘investment grade’ to ‘speculative.’ Speculative bonds are better known by the moniker “junk bonds.”
This doesn’t mean these schools are going broke. It does mean that issuing new debt may be more costly and lead to tuition & fee increases while your S/D attends, and that these schools may have to implement cost cutting and/or service reductions as a result of ongoing economic pressures.
Notably, OCU, Pace, Rider, and Hartford are all on the bubble, rated BBB-, outlook negative.
Molloy and Nazareth are BBB and had their outlooks reduced to stable from positive.
Emerson and LIU are BBB+ and had their outlooks reduced to negative.
https://www.spglobal.com/ratings/en/research/articles/200430-outlooks-revised-on-certain-u-s-not-for-profit-higher-education-institutions-due-to-covid-19-impact-11469520
We actually had an unusual experience with my D and a school, whose name I won’t disclose. It’s not an elite private academic school, but pretty close, and they do departmental decisions independent of academic decisions. Here was the timeline:
– D auditions (November)
– D hears that she is not accepted artistically (December)
– D hears that she is not accepted academically (January)
– D hears we’ll admit you…for Fall 2021. So do a year and then transfer (February)
– D hears we’ll admit you…now for Spring 2021 (March)
– D hears we’ll admit you…now for Fall 2020! (April)
School really needs to get its sh*t together. Not impressed.
@NYYFanNowMTdad - I think I was comparing BW to Elon that claims they don’t have a waitlist - although I heard some kids claim they were on it (the Elon WL) - so I don’t know if that’s accurate.
Some schools seem to shy away from the waitlist feeling like it prolongs the pain of the process - BW has a decent size wait list - I don’t see in a normal year that one policy is better than the other. And honestly, BW is a top school - I have to imagine they get a great yield. But so is ELON…I don’t have an opinion on which policy is better - just making the case why a school like Elon may have to reach out to previously rejected students and BW would not… And congratulations to your d again on her acceptance - you guys must be so excited!!!
@CaMom13 - just commenting on what I read in an article - not implying Harvard is going to go broke anytime soon - the article read “even Harvard” is having to go into their endowment - but I think we can all sleep well tonight knowing Harvard will survive COVID :).
As far as the lawsuits - I am not a lawyer but I would imagine that since on-line learning was a result of government policy, and not the college just deciding they wanted to hold classes on-line - and that this was in response to an emergency that the college could not have foreseen or anticipated - I don’t think the lawsuits will be successful. But it does put the colleges on notice that parents and students didn’t feel the learning was equivalent. And moving into the Fall I think everyone will expect more as this global pandemic is no longer an extraordinary event.
@StanfordAI2019 - On the academic side I have been hearing stories like that from non-mt - I would guess that’s because of the drop in international students.
@DivaStageMom , I think I understand the confusion re Elon waitlist. While my son received the rejection letter from MT stating “please be aware we do not operate a wait list”, he was also waitlisted for the school academically. The day after he got the email with the MT offer last week, he got his updated academic acceptance. I’m guessing that some people who were academically waitlisted to Elon reported that as a waitlist.
@DivaStageMom, I get it, but yeah I don’t buy any of this " we don’t have a waitlist" stuff sounds a lot like bravado to me. even CMU goes to the waitlist on occasion… I heard so many schools this year in parent sessions say “we seldom if ever go to the waitlist blah blah blah”…now they are eating humble pie as they are soliciting people previously rejected & another school who claimed they never go to the waitlist courting several kids HARD throwing more money at them etc…I agree w @Dance3Looks3 earlier post…
@DivaStageMom - lol, I wasn’t thinking you were wringing your hands with fear that Harvard wouldn’t survive. My point was that certain categories of schools will be hit harder over the next two years than others. Some 2024’ers are making decisions now and the 2025’ers are looking at school lists so they need to consider that. I think the next couple of years may see the elimination of some “hidden gem” programs if the host school has to retrench.
The lawsuit stuff makes me roll my eyes. My kid has’t missed an hour (or a minute) of class-time, she hasn’t lost a credit. Yes, remote learning is not the same as in-person education but that’s not for want of trying on the part of the schools. I don’t think the lawsuits (and I’ll bet there will be many) have a legal or principled leg to stand on but they will play out over time, making no one richer but the law firms… and future students will pay higher tuition because of them, regardless of outcome.
@NYYFanNowMTdad - the more popular MT schools have been riding high and yes, I agree, some have been a little too cocky with their assumptions. I feel for the faculty - this isn’t a crisis of their making any more than it’s ours. A couple of students down and they might be looking at budget cuts so let’s hope all the MT schools fill their classes next Fall for everyone’s sake!
@NYYFanNowMTdad - Agreed - honestly I kind of read it as laziness when a school said they didn’t like to deal with a waitlist - I think with maybe the exception of Michigan and CMU no school is “above” a waitlist. And having a large one doesn’t make you any less desirable.
My d auditioned for BW - at the MTCA audition in NYC - she was rejected - no WL - which was fine it wasn’t really the right school for her. But I was actually extremely impressed with Vicki Bussert - she was exactly the type of person I like - smart, organized, direct, and a problem solver. I think she keeps a nice sized waitlist because she is extremely organized and disciplined enough to manage it. I think she wants the right mix in each class and wants options. She came across as very on the ball.
@MTSthistime - you are probably correct about that. My d auditioned for Elon - and as I recall she got the artistic rejection from Accepted and she was waitlisted for the school - I think that came through on the portal - so there may have been some kids who were confused by that and thought they were WL to the program.
We had one school that was really, really aggressive about continuing to invite my daughter to their department of theatre with marketing emails (look how wonderful our school is! Come here!) after rejecting her from the BFA. I sent an email asking them to please remove her from their communications list (since she had been rejected) and they replied that each year, they do get several students to enroll to their theater BA program who initially wanted the BFA but were not accepted. To them, really, a tuition-paying student is a tuition-paying student, and the BA student’s money is worth the same as the BFA student’s! I suggested maybe they might, as some other schools did, offer the option to stay in the BA/accepted student communications loop OR to opt out of the near-daily encouragements to COME HERE! WE’RE SO GREAT after a rejection, so they can focus their marketing to the students who might actually enroll and let the others move on with their process.
While this was a minor irritation, all things considered (as were the enormous scholarship offers for academic acceptances after not even passing prescreens), I don’t lump these practices in the unethical category. A school’s gotta get butts in its seats, right? But ugh I still can’t even wrap my head around coming back to offer a space to someone who was outright and fully rejected – not academically accepted/deferred to a BA program, not wait-listed, but rejected.
Yesterday they had a segment on CNBC about the “fate” of colleges due to the pandemic - they had the head of UMich on-air - and although he felt they will survive he brought up that not having football games in the fall would be a HUGE revenue loss to schools like UMICH, Penn State and other big football schools. Something else to consider. There are going to be some cutbacks at a lot of schools if things don’t go back to normal in the fall.