The Class of 2024 -- Sharing, venting, discussing! MT

Thoughts entering the ‘big wait’…

Acceptd, the common prescreen, and the common app have removed significant barriers to ‘shotgunning’ the schools participating in the common prescreen. This has various predictable if possibly undesirable consequences for everyone.

First of all, it makes it easier to apply to programs across the board. The incremental cost of an application is not a barrier to entry except possibly for people only just disqualified from fee waivers. This democratization of the process ALSO lowers the incremental investment of time & effort required for other prescreens.

As a direct consequence, prescreen numbers are rising to historic and apparently unmanageable levels. As they do, the process introduces more variation into the quality of adjudication because the number of available person-hours for watching prescreens does not scale with the number of prescreens received. Thus even though “production value” of prescreen requirements is not an explicit requirement, it becomes a subjective element, in addition to type, skills, readiness, resume, and so on.

Prescreens are selected based not only on talent but also on a school’s recruiting goals. So you could be the greatest voluptuous brunette mezzo in history, but if the school already has several Beanie Feldsteins ahead of you, you’re probably not going to pass the prescreen. Or maybe they just don’t get to your submission until November and they already have 50 other auditions scheduled for your type. Or any of several other reasons…thus the apparent ‘randomness’ of the process. Of all of our prescreens, all
for highly selective to ‘dream’ schools, we passed 3 ‘dream’, 3 ‘highly selective,’ and ‘failed’ an equal number in each category. Are any of those ‘better’ than the others? Completely subjective. Does it mean our kid is untalented? No, just not necessarily what they’re looking for this time around.

OK. If you’ve stayed with me thus far, thanks. It’s actually about to
become interesting for this stage…

Because more kids are applying to more schools, the schools in turn do not have a good feel for what their yield is going to be. I’m not talking about the lottery schools, who are going to enroll a significant majority of the kids they accept.

Everyone below that level are going to accept kids who will have multiple acceptances yet can only choose one. If the schools are smart, they will have long-ish wait lists. And there will be movement.
They need a certain class size to maintain and improve their program/goals.

However, being artist driven, many of them haven’t really fully considered the consequences of the statistics above. Those that don’t plan accordingly may see their yields drop. A lot.

Several other schools are aggressively improving their nationwide profiles with recruiting and scholarships, effectively buying enrollment (caveat emptor here!!) at the expense of others.

Bottom line is that we should expect longer wait lists AND more movement on them than historical norms.

Unfortunately this means more waiting, but also more opportunity for proactive behavior. As discussed further up the thread, if you’re waitlisted, COMMUNICATE. Ask to go to the accepted students days. If it’s really your dream school, let them know. What a school really wants is an engaged and happy troupe. It helps to start with the kids that really, truly want to be there.

Having just finished the last audition yesterday, the whole family slept like the dead this morning. Can’t wait for life to resemble ‘normal’ for at least a couple of weeks.

BAL everyone! Each kid will find the path that’s right for them.

@MTisNutz Thank you for that thoughtful analysis! S’s prescreen experience felt super random and it tracks what you’ve said. Our journey is now done, but I am living it vicariously for some people very dear to me. This is very helpful. BAL to you and to all!

@MTisNutz Really good post!! I agree with everything you have said, and have also been ruminating over this whole process, which I believe is fundamentally unsustainable, but honestly cannot think of a way to fix it.

D maxed out her 20 schools on CommonApp, and then did many more by individual submission. The amount of money we have spent on sending SAT and ACT scores, college application fees, auditions fees, and in some cases even honors program application fees is beyond ridiculous. Add to that coaching fees, and the money we have spent traveling to 2 consolidated auditions, and individual campuses (flights, rental cars, hotels, food, etc.), and we are well over $20K.

I believe we are definitely at one end of the pendulum swing, as schools get more and more MT applicants each year. I also think the next trend in the few years to come is going to be centered around discussions of WHERE/HOW it will be easiest to pass pre-screens, and people will begin to seriously tweak that process as well. I do believe my D could have passed more pre-screens if we had submitted them in different ways than we did many of them. But, would that have made a difference in the final acceptances? Probably not. Anyway…for her that is all water under the bridge unless she decides to take a gap year.

I have also wondered how wait lists are going to go this year. I know many schools who will NOT use them, and I think that may have to change over the next few years as schools will inevitably see more kids decline their offer in lieu of another school’s offer. I do expect the “shuffling” wil cause decisions to be later and later. One school my D auditioned for said they used waitlists, but they will not send out offers after June 1st, out of respect for the colleges they would be pulling kids from. Up until that point, it never occurred to me that we might still be figuring all of this out via waitlists after May 1st. I cannot imagine not knowing for another 3-4 months!

It is a process for sure, and we will just have to wait and see…

Happy to say we are now officially done with auditions! Sad to say that we have still not received any Montclair socks. :frowning:

@sitzprobe Yes, last year we called my D (with her 6 waitlists) the Queen of the Waitlists! We did know a few other people who were on a lot of waitlists last year as well, and they all seem happy this year, so just keep hanging in there! Us BTDT parents are all rooting for you and your talented kiddos!

@BloomingGirl - got the Montclair socks this weekend - they are so ugly - I actually can’t imagine that anyone ever wears them! We got a banner from Indiana - got stickers from TCU and Webster - was at Elon this weekend and stole a pen from the Inn at Elon #sorrynotsorry so @WDWMom if I added it all up I am also about $20k in the hole from this process - but hey, I got the socks!

@WDWMom

Definitely a first world problem. We are blessed with abundance that such resources can be devoted to artistic pursuits.

In other cultures or countries, we would be guiding that same child toward a much different path.

And just so we’re on the same page, the whole college ‘experience’ destroys wealth in the name of “better opportunities” ** Yet everybody here (me included, btw) is making that trade.

We are perhaps uniquely ‘foolish’ in that we are doing so for an investment that has a negative expected return on investment (how many of you DON’T expect to be helping your struggling artist child in their 20’s?).

But our eyes are open; our children will get to pursue their dreams. And that, as the commercial says, is priceless.

Best of luck and BAL to you and your daughter!

**If instead of spending $20k now, you invested in a retirement account for your son or daughter at 7% tax deferred, by retirement it would be worth about $600,000.
If you did the same instead with a year of tuition, room & board they’d have a tidy 7-figure sum.

While I am past the stage you guys are at, I can say unequivocally that I did not plan on or expect to help my musical theater kid in her 20s. Both my daughters knew that I would take care of their education (no loans they would have to pay themselves), because I have a very strong value in giving my kids an education as was done for me. But they also knew that once they had their final graduation, they were on their own. Honesty, my kids expected that of themselves anyway. But that is all I could do, let alone all I think a parent ought to do for an educated adult. I would say this NO matter what my student majored in while in college (or graduate school). I didn’t care what they majored in. I also don’t believe that one’s college major entirely dictates their career or ability to obtain work. I have not supported my kids at all since their graduation day. My MT kid graduated college at age 20 and has supported herself from that day forward in NYC, in the fields of theater and music (but even if she could not have done so, I’m sure she could have found work in something else, but never had to). My other daughter went to graduate school (so that was 8 years of higher education I had to fund after financial aid and scholarships), but also has supported herself in full from her final graduation day and has worked in her chosen field. My kids have never lived at home since high school graduation, not even for a summer.

So, no I did not expect to help my kids in their 20s, nor could I or would I (though I would never allow them to live on the street!!) I think most people with a college degree can earn money in one way or another. My kids expected this of themselves and have fulfilled it. I did pay for their weddings though. That is another “gift” besides education that I value parents paying for (not saying what others should do). But I do believe that young adults who have been provided an education can and should find ways to support themselves. You mention “struggling artists,” but honestly, these kids can obtain survival jobs if they need to. Just my point of view, and my kids lived up to this expectation.

I absolutely love this comment @soozievt!! I feel the same way and so thankful I only had 1 D to go through this process.

Hey guys I’m trying to learn more about a couple of programs and thought I’d start a thread about them but these are big programs so I’m wondering if I’m just looking in the wrong place for threads about specific schools. If there isn’'t something already and I do need to start one does anyone know how you can get answers to questions on new threads? How would anyone even know to look for your question? Do you tag new threads with subjects or something to draw people to them? Specifically I’m looking for details from parents/students/former students about Texas State, Arizona, and Elon. Thank you!

Also, there are a lot of ways to make a living in theater. It’s true that not all of our kids will be able to support themselves as performers but they can take their experiences and knowledge and make money in other aspects of the field. I absolutely believe my kids will be able to support themselves when they graduate.

@4angels - I was trying to find the post you were replying to … but couldn’t seem to find it! I am also interested in insight on Millikin and Syracuse so this comment caught my eye. Can you provide any further info on Millikin being a tough environment? Thank you!

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@Stress19372919 I’m pretty sure they sent rejections quickly (My D was rejected after Chicago Unifieds.) I would say no news is hopeful news. Good luck!

@MTdreamin Can you tell us how the waitlist experience went? With decisions around the corner, I would like to be prepared.

@TimeToFindInfo - I won’t comment on Millikin but I wanted to post a different opinion on Syracuse (and FYI my kid doesn’t go there). Syracuse is one of the top programs in the country for putting performers on Broadway in Musical Theatre shows, including young performers / recent alumni. I know Broadway isn’t the “be all and the end all” for any one performer’s career but imo any school that consistently gets their alums on Broadway quite evidently provides an exceptional level of training and professional networking. My 2 cents. :wink:

We just got home from our FINAL auditions and we got our Montclair socks! Now it’s Wait-O-Poloosa festival 2020!

@intheburbs Oh, sure! Rub it in!!! :slight_smile: At this point I don’t even care where my kid goes, I just want those darn socks!! I have a bad case of FOMS (fear of missing socks syndrome.)

Best of luck! I hope Wait-O-Poloosa because Celebrate-O-Poloosa for you guys soon.

@SingerDancerMom , try here: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-schools/

@BloomingGirl if they were mine I would share them with you! One each! We never can find the matching pairs around this house anyway! Takes the sting away from all the app fees we paid for schools my D will never go to! We have a whole box of stickers, banners, and fancy folders piling up.

@BloomingGirl - I’ll happily send on the Montclair socks to you! I can’t imagine my D wearing them after getting rejected. Maybe at the end of this all we can have a planned bonfire on the same night. Burn all the essays, audition / school research, glossy mailers and tchotchkes!