The college application process is hard on homeschoolers

Pre-College Issues Home Schooling and College
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Hi @corraleno, I too have academically focused kids and am friends with homeschooling parents who put their all into educating their children. Most of the homeschoolers I choose to hang out with, and most of the homeschooling forums I choose to be a member of (along with the homeschooling Facebook pages I follow) are filled with homeschooling parents with well-educated kids. This is because those are the types of parents I gravitate toward, and those are the types of parents that are likely to be on those specific forums. The ones who don’t know what they are doing, or who think they know what they are doing but are misinformed or who are prone to overestimate (or worse, not even care about) their kid’s abilities, aren’t in my life on a daily basis. However, they exist - I split my time in two states in and among two very different homeschooling communities, and one of those communities has a LOT of families who homeschool for the sole purpose of isolating their kids and keeping them away from the secular world. The girls are taught to be helpmeets and mothers, with little other education happening or emphasized as important. I know a young woman who broke away from that and have spoken to her about her upbringing and the people her family was friends with, and the other homeschoolers she was allowed to be friends with, and I have personally met and interacted with families like this through specific local FB pages (which are not the academically-focused FB I am also also a part of) and from being out-and-about in the community.

I have no doubt all the homeschoolers you know are good parents who educate their children well. One of the homeschooling communities we are a part of (which happens to be near a major city) is filled with parents who do a fantastic job with their kids and those kids are absolutely being prepared for the world and for college. Many of them will likely end up at Ivies and top-50 Univerisities and LACs. The other homeschooling community, which happens to be in a very rural part of the country (and I am sure there are other rural homeschooling communities that are wonderful - I do not assume anything about rural communities in general), well…let’s just say those kids are definitely not being raised to their intellectual potential. I highly doubt that group has anyone applying to Ivies or top LACs. Those are the types that would find the college application process difficult (trying to bring this thread back to the article).

If all I knew personally was the type of homeschooler who was academically inclined with parents who were homeschooling for the best educational interest of the child, then I would get angry at people who think that some homeschooling parents are looking for an easy way out. Having seen the other side of the coin though…yes, some people really do want the easiest online Algebra course just to meet basic state requirements. Those are the types who probably won’t join the types of forums I (and probably you) frequent and enjoy.

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(Please forgive the typos in the above post - had to attend to a family matter after I posted and didn’t catch the typos until it was too late to edit.)

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@JanieWalker I don’t believe either @Corraleno or I are saying they don’t exist but that saying that large numbers of homeschoolers (80% according to some FB posts) are poorly educating their kids based on reading posts online is not representative of the homeschooling community in general.

It is representative of those sites in the same way that CC is not representative of the college application process for the majority of students. Most students–public, private, homeschooled–are not aiming for competitive schools. Most (including homeschoolers) don’t do more than submit am SAT or ACT score and transcript. Most never write a college application essay or request LOR. Most don’t worry about their EC resume. Similarly, most homeschoolers fall somewhere between the 2 extremes of slackers and high achievers.

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@Corraleno Actually, I had trouble finding any other groups. But homeschooling high school is not common where I live now. The FB groups were the ones I found at the time I was looking for information.

@Mom2aphysicsgeek You’re taking the 80% out of context. Not 80% of all homeschoolers; but 80% of posts on the page I was on.

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I think it best if Homeschoolers of all stripes - whether homeschooling K-12 or “just” one year or whatever - realize that their personal experiences do not neccesarily reflect the entirety of homeschooling, and that their kids and the kids they know don’t necessarily reflect all homeschooled kids everywhere. No one’s personal perspective based on their own personal experience should be rudely shrugged off or dismissed simply because it’s not what someone else wants to hear. Some people are immersed in groups with high performing academic kids with attentive parents and think the majority of Homeschoolers across the nation must be just like that, others have only seen Homeschoolers who lag behind every standard and whose education doesn’t equal that of the local public schools, and are therefore suspicious of homeschooling in general. Still others, like me, have seen girls used as second mothers with no expectations except that they too would become young mothers and submit to their man. Not that there is anything wrong with that if one chooses that route…but in those circumstances I have seen, the girl hasn’t been given much of a choice.

The attitude of someone not being a real homeschooler if they didn’t spend x amount of years homeschooling, and the attempts to suppress opinions based on personal experience simply because they run counter to someone else’s opinion/personal experience - that feels defensive and rude. I am grateful for the ignore feature on CC.

@sunnyschool, I have seen posts from Homeschoolers like you describe (especially on one specific homeschooling FB group that I will not name here), and I appreciate your perspective - even though the large group we personally hang out with contains homeschooled kids who are extremely high achieving and well educated, and who probably won’t have any problems getting into great colleges (though they’ll have to take those damn extra SAT2s). Your experiences are valid, as are everyone else’s, and your opinion based on your own experiences holds as much weight as anyone else’s opinion based on their own experiences.

Not much else to add to this thread without repeating myself, so there’s no point in my continuing to post here.

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So interesting how different our experiences are. I suppose it depends on where you live as to what types of homeschoolers one encounters.

I straddle many worlds. I’m a Christian homeschooler, but my two older sons went to top universities (eldest graduated from MIT; middle son spent some time at Penn). I am in gifted groups, Christian groups, secular groups, unschooling groups, and college bound homeschool groups.

I have always independently homeschooled (19th year), but know many families here in California that are using government run charter schools to homeschool. We’ve used many resources online and local.

I’m in a large city which is perhaps why I’ve never run into the kinds of homeschoolers that sunnyschool describes. My Christian homeschool friends are totally committed to educating their children. High school can be daunting for some of them, which is why they come to presentations that I and others give regarding homeschooling high school. I love empowering homeschoolers, encouraging them that they can homeschool through high school by various means if that’s what they want.

I consider myself a facilitator of my kids’ education after a certain age because, though I am a twice-credentialed teacher, and will be earning my college counseling certificate next year, I am not equipped to teach many high school subjects.

For my eldest, because he was so advanced, I had to outsource for STEM beginning in 4th grade. For my middle son, I began outsourcing for high school in middle school, and for my youngest, I’ve begun outsourcing some middle school subjects at our co-op, and he’ll begin high school subjects next year with other teachers.

Re. subject tests and hoops: easy for my eldest to get 3 subject tests. Easy for my middle son to get 2 subject tests (he did take a 3rd, but score wasn’t as strong). Third son will likely go the CC route and not university, so I’m hardly concerned about testing at this point. :wink:

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Yes! Me, too. I also give workshops on the homeschool to college process and work with families to find affordable options for their kids.

All of the parents who have had attend my workshops are fully invested in their kids’ educations even if not a single family has the same approach or goals as another. Homeschools are as varied as the number of families being discussed. Many don’t understand the nuances of college apps and FA, but they are all eager to learn.

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I don’t doubt that there are some homeschoolers who are slackers and whose kids would not be prepared for college. But the parents who don’t think their kids need to learn algebra, or who expect their daughters to settle for an 8th grade education and live at home until they are married off, are not going to be sending kids to the kind of selective schools that require extra SAT subject tests from homeschoolers — which is what MusakParent was objecting to. Sunnyschool disagreed and insisted that “the tests are important” because 80% of the homeschoolers she interacts with are slackers, and taking extra SATs is no big deal anyway.

I agree with MuzakParent that requiring extra subject tests from homeschoolers, even when a student has DE and other outside classes, has strong academic recommendations from outside teachers, and has excellent ACT/SAT scores and other outside verification (like APs or scores on other nationally-normed tests), is just plain stupid. If a homeschooler scores 1500 on the SAT and earns a perfect score on the National Latin Exam, it’s ridiculous to insist that he also provide SAT subject tests in English, math, and Latin, just because he’s homeschooled. It’s a totally pointless requirement that does not provide the college with any extra information. Why should a homeschooler with AP scores and/or DE grades in multiple subjects also have to provide SAT scores in those subjects, if the same college happily accepts grades from standard PS classes with no additional proof required? It’s bureaucratic idiocy.

And I disagree that taking a bunch of SAT subject tests is no big deal; adding hours of test prep, finding a PS that will let you take the tests there, finding a date that works (and some tests are only offered twice a year), arranging accommodations if you need them, etc., adds up to a big waste of time for kids who have super busy schedules and whose transcripts, recommendations, and other test scores already provide plenty of evidence of their abilities. Plus some of us are philosophically opposed to teaching to the test, and are not interested in enriching the College Board for no good reason. Luckily only a tiny handful of colleges require extra tests from homeschoolers, because most colleges know from experience that the vast majority of homeschooled applicants are just as prepared as any other applicant.

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I don’t doubt that there are some homeschoolers who are slackers, but the parents who think their kids don’t need to learn algebra, or who expect their daughters to settle for an 8th grade education and live at home until they marry, are not going to be sending their kids to the kind of selective schools that require extra subject tests for homeschoolers — which was what MuzakParent objected to. Sunnyschool disagreed and insisted that “the tests are important” because 80% of the homeschoolers she’s familiar with are slackers, and taking extra subject tests is no big deal anyway.

I agree with MuzakParent that requiring extra subject tests from homeschoolers who have excellent ACT/SAT scores, academic recommendations from outside teachers, and other outside verification like DE or AP or scores on other nationally normed tests (not from the College Board), is just stupid. Requiring that a homeschooler with 1500 SATs and perfect scores on the National Latin Exam also provide math, English, and Latin subject tests is just pointless hoop jumping that provides no additional information. Why should a homeschooler with multiple APs and/or DEs be forced to take subject tests if the same college happily accepts grades from PS students in the same subjects without any further verification? It’s just bureaucratic idiocy and ignorance.

And I disagree that taking a bunch of extra subject tests is no big deal; adding hours of test prep, finding a PS that will let you test there, finding a date that works with a student’s schedule (some tests are only offered twice a year), arranging accommodations if you need them, etc., is a big waste of time for a student with a busy schedule. Many homeschoolers are not trying to replicate standard PS courses at home, which are what SAT2s are designed to measure, and they’re only offered in a very limited number of subjects. Plus some of us are philosophically opposed to teaching to the test and are not interested in enriching the College Board for no good reason. Luckily, it’s only a tiny handful of colleges that require extra tests for homeschoolers (and some of those may be more flexible than they seem on paper). The vast majority of colleges do not require any extra hoop-jumping from homeschoolers, because they know from experience that most homeschoolers are well prepared and their application materials demonstrate this without requiring extra subject tests.

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Absolutely. And if a homeschooler is considering highly selective schools, he or she knows there will be hoop jumping involved, and if he/she chooses not to jump through the hoops, there are plenty of other colleges to choose from/they can take their chances.

My middle son opted not to jump through hoops for the UCs. It wasn’t worth it to him. He was still admitted to 2/3 with a waitlist at the third. He did great in admissions without having to take AP exams or doing too much beyond what he wanted to do.

Also of note: many colleges are going to both SAT subject test optional even for homeschoolers and self-reporting scores including the SAT in order to not unduly punish low income students with prohibitive costs.

Yes, a few still require them, but the landscape is changing. Always good to see where the policy stands in the year a student is applying.

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I just found this thread after going through application season with my D19. None of the selective schools to which she applied required extra testing from homeschoolers. She did apply to two test optional schools that required homeschoolers still submit the SAT or ACT. She had no deferrals or rejections and was ultimately accepted ED to a great school. I felt stressed that homeschooling could hinder her chances, but that didn’t seem to be the case at all. She did have tons of outside verification, but no AP or SAT subject tests at all.

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I have had great success with my kiddos going to selective colleges. When my current senior (#4) ran into a rep for my oldest’s alma mater, the rep - one of the top dogs in admissions - not only remembered that graduate of his Marvelous InsTitution, but remembers his application. He said it showed some of the most unusual activities he’d seen as well as the widest variety of academic achievements (the power of homeschool!). That one was a national AP scholar as well as youngest licensed egg candler. Since then, I’ve soured on the Northeast and on standardized testing, choosing to focus on project based learning instead of the APs in May when we are remarkably busy with travels and competitions. This current senior’s attempt at the SAT was not spectacular though national awards list is long, and sr has received great merit offers at all the great schools which have sent acceptances. No denials yet so maybe the aim was not high enough. #4 is looking for happiness and warm people. :slight_smile:

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I think the hardest thing about college admissions for homeschoolers is they tend to be pretty independent and college admissions really rewards dependency. Dependency on a school to have a gajillion clubs needing a thousand officers so everyone gets their due. Dependency a school where they can take the PSAT or get nominated for certain scholarships. Dependency reliable recommendations from adults with certain kinds of credentials where it’s part of their job to write the right kind of recommendation. I find that the most tiring aspect.

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@CCtoAlaska How many of your kids have gone from homeschooling through college admissions and had negative experiences due to having been homeschooled?

Our kids must have applied to different schools bc this * “I think the hardest thing about college admissions for homeschoolers is they tend to be pretty independent and college admissions really rewards dependency. Dependency on a school to have a gajillion clubs needing a thousand officers so everyone gets their due,”* has not been my kids’ experiences for college applications and acceptances.

We are completely independent homeschoolers. We do not use any standard curriculum providers and most of my kids have had minimal outsourced classes. I have been their primary teacher. My current college sophomore had never stepped inside of a classroom except for summer camp type activities until freshman yr of college. My kids’ transcripts are filled with courses that are atypical high school offerings.

They have not had “clubs” or lists of offices. What they have had are activities that reflect who they are. Our homeschool approach is to allow them to follow their passions and pursue those interests academically. They have had great admissions’ successes and been awarded universities’ most competitive scholarships.

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@Mom2aphysicsgeek I have one who is a junior. I don’t know that it will be a negative for her but I’m exhausted by stuff like finding a school for the PSAT, the extra considerations that come with it like if she wants to study overseas instead of domestically she needs AP tests, finding a school that will let her take the AP tests with them, etc. Just stuff that a school would normally just handle for her. I’m not even sure it makes a difference because she is a full-time student in cc and will be eligible to direct transfer for her BA and never apply anywhere. But she wants to cover all her bases just in case. My hat is off to you for getting through the whole process!