The College Formerly Known as Yale

Usually committees like the one proposed are created so the outcomes wont be as clear.

The committee is not looking at one hall but will be making recommendations for coming up with a process on when or how to get a name changed. This will be 1-2 year in the making.

There are going to be six professors, three alumni, two students and an administrator on the committee.

As you say, @dstark, I’m quite sure Yale will figure it out - perhaps not the way either you or I would prefer. In response to your question, I’ll confirm that I’ve got more of a connection to Yale than you do, and, as I’ve said upthread, I’ve talked to a lot of actual Yalies - a significant number of whom are or were affiliated with Calhoun College - about this issue. As noted previously, some share your view, others don’t, and there are many different positions.

If you’ve got anything new to say on this topic, by all means do so and I’ll respond if I’ve got anything to add that I think would be of interest to the group. Otherwise I think I’ve articulated - multiple times - all the points I can usefully make in this forum, and I believe nearly everyone here understands my point of view by now.

I think the names “Yale” and “America” should be changed too.

Hyperbole arguments were used and discarded 20 pages ago already.

Actually, the Ryan Lochte story aside, exaggeration can have its place in some cases to make a point. As many have said here in earlier pages, several of the residential colleges are named for individuals with strong ties to slavery. Calhoun College is not alone. As mentioned (ok, by me) Ezra Stiles has a plaque newly affirmed outside it’s dining hall. Will it be enough? Time will tell. I personally find the attempted analogies to naming things after Nazi officers ill conceived and off-putting, because people have never looked at their place in history as having any positive component. But the example was used several times to try to put forward a point. IMO, people can read the hyperbole and decide for themselves if it had merit or adds to the conversation.
It’s also interesting, IMO, that this issue has gotten comparatively little attention/discussion in the Yale forum on CC. Some conversation about the window smashing incident, but thus far, not 50 pages of banter about this issue.

I gotta admit that when I started this thread, I had no idea, or even desire, that it would continue for 50 pages.

@hebegebe - can you find a link to your original article that doesn’t require $/a registration/a log in to read it?

@DeepBlue86, ok. I appreciated your posts.

It’s looking like nobody read that first link. :slight_smile:

I would like to think nobody thought the Nazis had a positive component, but that would be false.
Did you ever see this story? I didn’t know about this.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/21/new-york-towns-murky-nazi-history-lives-on-as-couple-struggle-to-sell-home-to-non-germans-5452698/

This link has more info.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/nyregion/query-for-home-buyers-in-a-long-island-hamlet-are-you-german.html?_r=0

A friend of mine worked on the documentary Surviving Skokie. The documentary is very good. Another friend’s father worked for Schindler in a concentration camp. Their views would differ than yours.

The naming issue is real in Europe. Maybe not so much in the United States.

I was addressing the prior post about nazis to @jym626.

Not calling anyone person out @dstark. There were several posts about Nazis and naming things for Nazis. I feel it’s inappropriate and a bad analogy but people are free to do what they want. And yes we are talking about naming issues here in the US. What other people do in other countries is their own choice.

@jym626, I was using the analogy. I think it is appropriate or I would not have used the analogy. :slight_smile:

And on this we shall agree to disagree. Calhoun was selected because in American history he had been seen as having many positive attributes and Yale selected him. It is highly unlikely anyone would choose a Nazi is having wonderful attributes. Maybe they should name it Godwin college since Godwins law seems to be a vote here

Yale decided against naming Calhoun Taft instead, as Taft had only been dead a few years and they said they dos t have enough time to be judged by history. Doubtful the same would be said for a nazi. And yes you n retrospect, by today’s perspective, calhoun’s pros and cons are appropriately being revisited, at the time they saw it differently.

I too think the analogy to Nazis is strained. A more interesting analogy may be to a contemporary of Calhoun’s, Thomas Hart Benton, who was a vigorous champion of westward expansion for decades in the Senate, one of the intellectual fathers of the manifest destiny philosophy and the author of the first homestead act. I can certainly imagine some subset of Native American students not being excited to be associated with that legacy. On the other hand, he was an obvious person of consequence whose ideas were mainstream in his era and shaped the world in which we live, even though many today feel they were genocidal.

And there is a big difference between looking retrospectively at a naming decision that was made 80 years ago vs talking about a decision, even hypothetically, to select a name now for someone who is known to be evil.

I read your links dstark. The analogy works for me. As I recall, it worked for at least one Yale professor as well.

adding: Basically I believe slave owners were “as evil” as nazis. Some slave owners were worse than others. Some nazis were worse than others.

At the time of the civil war, and when Calhoun was named 70 years later, many recognized slavery as a evil institution. It wasn’t seen as enough of an evil to prevent the naming.

So @alh,

Which of the USA’s founding fathers do you believe are worthy of continued recognition?

But to my knowledge, there are no institutes of higher learning with residential colleges (or any thing remotely similar) named decades ago after nazi war criminals. The analogy seems to me to be closer to the other hyperbole being complained about by some here. And the story of the vessel that is used to decommission oil fields being named in 2015 buy some guy after his nazi father? IMO its irrelevant. However tasteless, the guy can name the barge thing after whoever he wants, not no company has to use it. That said, naming it NOW after his war criminal dad is tasteless, and people were right to raise a stink and hopefully Shell did not use the boat or the idiot didnt name it after his war criminal dad. Now if he’d named it decades ago before it came to light that the dad was a war criminal, maybe the analogy might make sense. But IMO this one does not.

In the 1930s monuments were erected in the south to memorialize the Civil War and confederate leaders. These were deliberately racist acts aimed at intimidation of the black population. The black population did not have a strong enough voice to successfully oppose such actions. I already have written at least twice I have absolutely no idea what was going on at Yale that this happened, but I do find it more and more interesting.

After WWII there was never a glorification or romanticizing of the Germans in the way that happened with regard to the confederacy. It seems to me Americans felt overwhelming horror when they realized what had happened in the camps. One of my friends keeps bringing me novels and memoirs of this period so I’ve been reading a lot about it recently. I am not Jewish, so this didn’t impact my family as it did the families of some of this board. I am so very sorry for all of you.

It is just about the same length of time from the end of WWII to now as from the end of the Civil War to the naming of those Yale Colleges. It is inconceivable to me we are knowingly going to be naming anything after any nazis.