@DeepBlue86, I at least appreciate your perspective here and the seriousness with which you seek to engage on the issue. I know it can often feel like beating your head against the wall, but fwiw, I find your contributions thoughtful and informative.
I also know that they’re frequently fallacious and often disingenuous.
What if there is? (we could do this all day)
I vote for everyone taking a collective deep breath until the students return to campus shortly.
@marvin100, handsome Dan passed a couple weeks ago, so that metaphorical closet door is wedged closed.
@jym626 right!!!
Thank you for that…
In the end only the folks at Yale matter here. We don’t!!!
Dropping my kid off soon. He and his generation will grapple with this. Part of the process. It will be complicated and uncomfortable. Good! That’s to be expected. There is no easy answer.
My advice for all that “don’t have a dog in the fight”…go find causes in your own localities that need attention and leave this fight to those who actually experience it.
About handsome Dan: See post # 470 http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19876061/#Comment_19876061
I guess this all points out that it’s wiser in the long run to not name things after people. People are too complicated and controversial. And don’t get snarky and suggest we name things after corporations. Corporations are not people, they are even worse when it comes to controversy.
Or, better yet, name things what you want to name them and be conscientious about how that might affect people. And if it begins to affect people negatively, don’t be unreasonably slavish to “tradition.”
@jym626 - If history is any guide, I suspect Handsome Dan XVII won’t be the last Yale bulldog…
Well, um… that goes without say, @marvin100. U Ga is on it’s 10th “UGA” bulldog mascot, but has some temporary ones in between, and other mascots prior to first bulldog in 1956 (thank you wikipedia). But I digress…
Haven’t read all 442,654,665 pages of this discussion (too busy carving a bar of soap into a gat)…has anyone pointed out that most progressive activists are cultural relativists who are VERY hesitant to condemn anybody for anything…and should be the first to acknowledge that whatever is the norm at that time & place is morally ok?
The complaining students are kind of operating under the false premise that in this here earthly life there is a thing called moral purity, and anyone who doesn’t live up to that standard should be banished.
The unfortunate truth is that life is a big messy contact sport, & even the most revered leaders & ikons of the students’ own causes have been adulterers, thieves, plagiarists, mysoginists, exploiters, etc. Perfection is, and always has been, a very very rare commodity.
@tonymom , we realize that you are proud that your son is going to Yale however we, the unwashed masses, can also have an opinion
@tonymom Unfortunately for the rest of the USA, how Yale handles this issue could influence how other colleges will respond to similar demands on their campuses. This push for renaming is not and will not be isolated to Yale. I could care less about Yale and its Calhoun College specifically. Clemson also has a Calhoun College and quite a few public schools are named after Calhoun, so Yale is certainly not unique. And, many other buildings, streets, etc around the USA are named after slave-owners and imperfect people as well. How the Yale administrators respond to these demands for renaming may impact protesters and decision-makers elsewhere in the future. That is why I have periodically read this thread.
@moooop While philosophical meanderings about what is and isn’t ok for certain people to think at any given time in history are great… The students at Yale have a different problem CURRENTLY that we are discussing. It is a REAL problem and not a problem related to varying standards of perfection.
Black students don’t want to live/eat/sleep/play/have tea/ wear t-shirts/ become fellows honoring a racist whose sole aim in life was to keep them enslaved and oppressed. This creates an inferior psychological environment for these students. It is demeaning, dehumanizing and oppressive.They do not want to live in this inferior environment anymore. The students have not had the numbers or power while at Yale to have any real say in their experience… perhaps they still don’t have them, but they are giving it a try. There is a nationwide awareness of the need to try and end systemic institutionalized racism in our country because it is making life harder for black Americans and causing significant unrest/harm in our country.
Pretending the students suffering is non existent, or of their own making isn’t going to help solve this problem. It is just going to create more anger and suffering. We need to acknowledge this.
The majority of students polled on campus and many faculty, are in support of the black students. (As are many journalist, and citizen online petitions nationwide). The students ARE NOT expecting moral purity from anyone.
I am not sure who you are talking about. It can’t be either Elihu Yale or John Calhoun.
Even though Elihu Yale did mandate “at least 10 slaves on every ship”, he was also President of Madras, India. And even though John Calhoun supported slavery, he was also busy as Secretary of War, Vice-President (twice), and a Senator.
So, who are you talking about?
On further reflection, perhaps @runswimyoga was talking about Morse College at Yale, named after Samuel Morse, who said:
Oh wait, he also invented the telegraph. So probably not him either.
@hebegebe You know we are talking about Calhoun.
The students are advocating to change the name of Calhoun on their residence hall. The students are not talking about changing Elihu Yale or Morris. That is YOUR hypothetical.
You can put all the titles on Calhoun you want (Senator, Secretary of War, VP)… NONE of those change the fact that while he held those titles his political ideology and work within those offices was to ensure the enslavement of blacks,
AT ALL COSTS.
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