the concept of 'luck' in Harvard admissions

<p>So basically, your essay should reflect some quality of yours that syncs well with what H wants?</p>

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<p>Harvard wants diversity but not that kind of diversity. The chances of a C student being admitted to Harvard are so low as to indistinguishable from zero.</p>

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Harvard wants diversity but not that kind of diversity. The chances of a C student being admitted to Harvard are so low as to indistinguishable from zero.

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Sorry, they are happy C's at Harvard, probably decent students in high school - admitted because of wealth or connections. There were certainly kids in my day who were happy to rest on their laurels and could count on trust funds or nepotism to get them through life after Harvard. My sense is that there are fewer of them now.</p>

<p>Yes, I think coureur's point is that you don't get into Harvard by being a happy C student in high school, which perhaps was once possible in an era of little grade inflation. When I was at the Minnesota National College Fair last week, the representatives (admission office and alumni) at the Harvard booth were asking students who walked up to say hello, "Are you getting good grades?" and similar questions. Some high schools, indeed, probably only prepare students to be near the bottom of Harvard's class, but if a student is to be admitted to Harvard at all that student (these days) generally has to be a strong high school student. </p>

<p>Of course you and coureur both know more about this from personal experience than I do. :) I'm still trying to figure out what's a reasonable application plan for some young people I know, children of friends, who are applying to college this year.</p>

<p>One of the most traumatic experiences for students at top colleges (not exclusively Harvard) is to go from being a straight A student to receiving the first B or C in one's life.<br>
The are C students at Harvard and elsewhere, some happier than others. But they did not get into Harvard or other top colleges by being C students in high school, no matter how wealthy their parents are.</p>

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<p>Correct. Of course there are students who earn C grades or even a C average at Harvard. Somebody has to be in the bottom third or quarter of every graduating class. But post #15 appeared to suggest that Harvard seeks to admit (along with legacies, developmental cases, etc) kids who are C students in high school. That simply is not going to happen.</p>

<p>Except that it does.</p>

<p>It is a rare student who gets all A's in Harvard. Despite popular myth, it is difficult to get an A in many courses. Of course that brings to mind the old adage:</p>

<p>Question: What do you call a Harvard graduate who graduates last in his class?</p>

<p>Answer: A Harvard graduate.</p>

<p>That being said, it is very hard to receive a B (or a C) when you have always achieved A's. There are few Harvard students who are pacified by the above. </p>

<p>I agree with Coureur and Marite. High schools students with C averages are unlikely to be admitted to Harvard. And if they were to be admitted, they'd have one heck of a time with the coursework.</p>

<p>H-Bomber: I think your post is right-on.</p>

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Oh, I don't know. The Tulane</a> students that spent a semester or two at the Ivies certainly had no trouble adjusting. One Tulane student (Ecliptica) even claimed that Brown was easier than his own school.</p>

<p>I seem to recall the old adage being about medical school.</p>

<p>I didn't mean to imply that Harvard is accepting any C students. Only that it had a reputation at one time for accepting a bunch of kids who wouldn't mind getting Cs at Harvard -kids who wouldn't mind occupying the bottom quarter of the class. I'm sure the vast majority then and now would not be happy with more than a smattering of Cs at Harvard. I think just about everyone who is accepted at Harvard is capable of doing at least B work there. If they don't it's because they are overextended, choose courses over their heads (happening right now to my son's best friend in math at Princeton), or because they need some help with study skills.</p>

<p>Okay are you guys saying C average students don't get admitted...or that students that had a few C's don't get admitted?</p>

<p>^^Students with a C average or with a lot of Cs definitely do not get admitted - as I said, it's just not going to happen. I can't guarantee that a student with with a few Cs won't get admitted, particularly in the case of developmental admits or star athletes, but I've never seen it happen among the "regular kids." Every regular kid Harvard student I know was a straight-A or near straight-A student in high school.</p>

<p>The one kid I know of who got his acceptance rescinded from from HYP got rescinded for getting two Cs his senior year in high school. It was Yale and not Harvard, but it still illustrates that, in the absence of some big compensating factor (athlete, compelling story, etc), there very low tolerance for Cs on an applicant's record.</p>

<p>Check out the the Harvard acceptance threads right here on CC. Those are the types of kids who get admitted. You won't see any C students there.</p>

<p>Trouble adjusting? No. But November is way too early to know what kind of grades a student would get, whether at Tulane or Harvard.<br>
Furthermore, no one is claiming that Harvard is way harder than any other school, including Tulane.<br>
A high schooler with a C record would have trouble at both Tulane and Harvard.</p>

<p>In my humble opinion:</p>

<p>I think a student receiving B or C is not that suddenly student lost motivation to study or the material is very hard (though it could be the case – but not for majority student). The problem is that Harvard (any other good college – not debating which one) has so many things to offer outside the classroom that students put more time in pursuing their passion outside the classroom. This involvement suddenly takes precious time devoting that they need to give for classroom and taking time to study. For a student suddenly meeting other students who are passionate about doing similar activities is so much fun. There are so many activities and so many attractions to do that it is hard for a student to focus on studies alone. The student sometime forgets that their job is to study also. By the time student realize, they come back and try to balance. Thus it is hard to get straight A unless student just worry about books and classroom and forget what Harvard has to offer. After all why go to Harvard for bookish knowledge only. It is far more important to meet and jump right into multiple activities that school offers. This way you learn more outside the classroom and develop more passions.</p>

<p>I completely agree with that statement. You don't go to Harvard to get straight A's (hopefully you've had enough of those in high school). It's no longer a competition. Harvard has SO much to offer...and sometimes the lessons learned outside of the classroom are more important than those learned inside.</p>

<p>Unless one is planning to be an academic, most of the skills one learns outside of the classroom will probably be more useful in life than knowledge learned in the classroom.</p>

<p>"After all why go to Harvard for bookish knowledge only. It is far more important to meet and jump right into multiple activities that school offers. This way you learn more outside the classroom and develop more passions."
Well said. Interesting questions rise though:
1. What is the top priority for a student in Harvard? - Excellent classroom grades (somewhat bookish knowledge) or outside EC/Passions with OK classroom grades?
2. Is this unique to Harvard?
Knowing this can help prospective high school students and their parents to decide whether or not to apply to Harvard and also help them to manage the expectations after getting into Harvard.</p>

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What is the top priority for a student in Harvard? Excellent classroom grades (somewhat bookish knowledge) or outside EC/Passions with OK classroom grades?

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<p>Speaking as someone with some familiarity but also a lot of distance (as the parent of a Harvard student):</p>

<p>--This is a question that, I think, like so many, simply cannot be answered, as the roughly 1,500 or so students who comprise each Harvard class vary tremendously in this regard, as in so many others.</p>

<p>--That said, I think that it is true that a distinctive (though not unique) part of the Harvard experience for many undergraduates is the richness of the outside-of-class experiences that are offered, and the intensity with which they pour themselves into those activities.</p>

<p>--That said, you have to keep in mind that for most of these kids, operating at a very high level of energy and engagement in a variety of activities, both academic and otherwise, has long been the norm in their lives. Hence the fact that they are spending a lot of time on, say, the newspaper (to give just one of myriad possible examples) does not necessarily mean that they're giving short shrift to their studies. It may mean, rather, that they tend to get by on little sleep, tend not to spend much time "just chillin'," etc.</p>

<p>--So for many Harvard students, my hunch is that the answer to the question "which is more important - your studies (and grades) or outside-activity X (and maybe also Y and Z)" - would be this: "Both."</p>

<p>Warblersrule: Yes, it's the same adage, just modified for the situation. Sort of like light bulb jokes ...</p>

<p>I agree with Stockmarket, Epistrophy, and the other supporting posts. ECs are huge at Harvard.</p>