<p>^lol! (10 char)</p>
<p>“Useless” majors like philosophy can and should be very, very hard. If you can’t hold your own in a highly theoretical seminar on Advanced Logic or discuss hardcore Epistemology, you don’t belong in that major. The high dropout rate of STEM majors can be attributed to their rigor, but the same can be engineered for LA majors. My school’s AP Lit class is extremely self selecting. Those who aren’t good with critical thinking or rudimentary philosophical prowess knew they would crash and burn. It’s a good deterrent. My teacher can smell BS from a mile away, and I’m sure a lot of that is produced in a philosophy major in college as well. They should be given the “C” they deserve for every bit of flowery padding, lack of insight or faulty reasoning in their essays. That should kill off a lot of LA majors who aren’t serious about it in the first place and use it as a rite of passage to get a degree and curb the apparent oversupply.</p>
<p>Precious few people can actually handle the highly theoretical philosophical discourses independently. The grades should reflect that. I was listening to philosophical seminars from Oxford, no doubt introductory courses. The lecturer asks some VERY basic questions in philosophy that should have gone without saying, independently discovered by those who are truly interested. If a philosophical person serious about the subject thinks at all, I don’t see how the question of “how do I know what I know?” hasn’t been encountered at some point or is worthy of addressing in an obviously great institution of higher learning. If one doesn’t have a highly inquisitive, versatile and analytical mind that questions the basic assumptions we make in daily life (how do I know what I know?), I wonder what he’s doing studying philosophy. It’s like teaching a music major basic theory or reading sheet music. It should have been done already.</p>
<p>Taxguy makes some interesting points, but maybe the problem is we dont teach ENOUGH
history.</p>
<p>My question is this: while the main claim against the liberal arts is their narrow focus and uselessness outside of preparation for graduate school, what exactly makes a degree in a hard science any different? Speaking strictly in a pre-professional sense, how is a BS in Physics really any different than a BA in Philosophy? Both degrees are useful if you want to be a professor or pursue other postgraduate studies, but they’re limited beyond that. I guarantee you some random corporate cubicle job isn’t going to utilize skills directly from Philosophy or Physics. Both will ultimately show the same thing – you’re capable of finishing college. For many jobs, that’s all that matters.</p>
<p>I think it’s silly to single out the humanities when discussing education that doesn’t correlate neatly to a non-academic career. There are “useless” degrees in all disciplines. A college degree is what you make of it. It’s not going to magically get you a great job. (Unless you’re an engineer, I guess. :p)</p>
<p>I wonder why no one has talked about fulfillment. I don’t think the defense for technical studies needs to be made. For sure, technical knowledge is necessary and enough people desire it. However, liberal arts must be defended because it helps people delve into the human soul. Maybe preproffesional-oriented people don’t value philosophy, politics, etc, but that doesn’t mean they should argue against it. </p>
<p>I think anyone should pursue what their heart desires. Some of you may criticize this as impractical and will lead to my poverty. To this I reply, I would rather die as a homeless philosophy major than live an unfulfilled life making a billion dollars a year doing something I dislike.</p>
<p>“I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.” -John Adams</p>
<p>I have a strong opinion on this subject myself because I have a liberal arts degree.</p>
<p>I majored in English (with a focus in Applied English Linguistics). At the time, people would ask, “What are you going to do with that?” or “Oh, are you going to teach?” It annoyed me to no end and even made me question my choice.</p>
<p>Well, I am <em>not</em> teaching. I’m not in an unrelated field, either, shockingly. I am an editor–specifically, a scientific editor.</p>
<p>If universities only offered degrees in “career” fields, I would like to ask what exact degree would have been suitable for me as an editor? I admit that the field I’m in will accept a variety of degrees–English isn’t mandatory–but I resent the suggestion that I should have wasted 4 years studying accounting just so I could edit.</p>
<p>This idea that universities should become little more than fancy technical schools really annoys me. People don’t seem to realize that there are other careers in the world besides accounting, medicine, business, computers, and so forth. And there are the other advantages of a liberal arts education that have been addressed here.</p>
<p>At my graduation, our valedictorian addressed this topic, making a joke that engineering students become engineers but Spanish students don’t become Spaniards. She’s completely correct, of course, but just because the career path for a Spanish major (or any other field) isn’t as glaringly obvious doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.</p>
<p>“I don’t see how the question of “how do I know what I know?” hasn’t been encountered at some point or is worthy of addressing in an obviously great institution of higher learning. If one doesn’t have a highly inquisitive, versatile and analytical mind that questions the basic assumptions we make in daily life (how do I know what I know?), I wonder what he’s doing studying philosophy.”</p>
<p>uh what are you talking about? “how do I know what I know” is a fundamental question in epistemology. if you are studying philosophy it’s something you’ll be returning to again and again, from Descartes’ cogito to Hume’s questioning of causality to Kant’s thing in itself and on and on… these aren’t “basic” questions they’re profound questions and wanting to delve into them is the reason people study philosophy.</p>
<p>Here’s an example. An employer in, say, a bank or hospital gets two applications for a job. One with a finance related degree and the other majored in classical studies, who do you think they would hire?</p>
<p>It’s the cold, hard truth. If you have $300,000 plus lying around then go for your liberal arts degree but remember in the REAL world out there, there are very few employers that would pick such a degree over a more practical degree.</p>
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<p>Just HOW many editor jobs are lying around for the millions of people that will graduate in English? 20? 30? Is that what a million people are going to fight for? When all that is gone, what is left but to either go to teaching (not trying to vilify it) or flipping burgers. At this point, you will probably try to start listing other “out of industry jobs” but the truth is that there are simply not enough of them to sustain the number of graduates in English or other liberal arts.</p>
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<p>sooooooooooooo true.</p>
<p>your entire worldview is the creation of dead philosophers.</p>
<p>Interesting discussions. I was especially impressed that Mr Payne included quotes at nine places and replied, his idea (imho) persuasive and his language skill brilliant.</p>