<p>Thanks for that perspective Xiggi. I hope you are correct that the good ole boy network is fading. From the admissions results at our no-name high school this year, that would certainly seem to be the case. And the fortunate corollary is that outstanding students at high schools that were never part of the network of the favored -- and never had a prayer of earning a spot in that network -- are not shut out of the game.</p>
<p>My daughters big name boarding hs is trying very hard to get variety of students as well. The old network is not as powerful. It really is more of meritocracy though there are still angles.</p>
<p>Wjb, while there is no real hard data to substantiate my position, it does seem that there is much anecdotal evidence in the form of families with children at your typical feeder schools complaining about the changes in the admission landscape all the while students from lesser known schools finding increasing success (and despite very poor guidance.)</p>
<p>My own theory is that students have discovered a world of advice outside their own high schools and are relying on the internet for information. In addition, many programs such as Questbridge are opening doors that remained closed for too long, and often because of the lackluster guidance at many schools where the horizon was restricted to the local public schools. </p>
<p>Again, it is only an anecdote, but the changes at my own high school (an 80% URM school) are palpable. While a short five years ago, only highly competitive athletes considered top 20 schools, today such schools are not even out of bounds for students ranked in the top quartile with dozens of admissions at highly selective schools, including HYPS. Since the school has not changed much and the same GC has been there for decades, one has to look at different reasons behind the greater success of the past years.</p>
<p>Well, I think I didn't express my point correctly. I don't think it's a good ol' boys network of GC-to-AdComm pals, at all. I DO think that experienced AdComms (and likely those with the most clout) sometimes develop familiarity with high schools. They learn over the years that the valedictorian from a certain hs has garnered a high gpa but still can't write a solid term paper or juggle the competing demands of five or six challenging college-level courses. They may know that top graduates from another hs where the grading scale is very tough and the curriculum extremely challenging hit the ground running when they come to their institution.</p>
<p>After all, these colleges ALL insist that their first and foremost criterion is the transcript and the rigor of coursework. I think we all know that rigor of coursework and level of grade inflation is enormously variable from high school to high school. It's actually kind of preposterous to imagine that this issue isn't extremely important to admissions committees.</p>
<p>I also think that more than the GC, certain respected teachers at a high school with a long tenure can hold a lot of sway. If they strongly support students over the years who turn out to be truly brilliant scholars, it begins to be noticed. There are a few teachers at our high school who will sometimes sit out a season. Simply not write for any students. That's because they really can't do so with enthusiasm. I think if you get such a teacher writing for you and putting there own reputation behind you -- it matters immensely!</p>
<p>But there are so many different high schools, so many different pathways to acceptance at selective colleges. I am not trying to argue that a student at a relatively unknown hs has no chance. I do think they may have more of an uphill battle. My kids are fortunate to have been offered scholarships to attend a very, very good private hs with a good history of sending graduates to top schools. I really question whether my older daughter would have had the same admissions success if she'd attended our public high school where APs really are a joke in terms of their difficulty and grade inflation is rampant.</p>
<p>I think the old boy (or girl) network is still running. My cousin's wife used to work in the Harvard Admission's office. She's now a college counselor at a well known private school. Surely part of the attraction was her connections.</p>
<p>It's difficult to predict what kind of high school would be better for any given child. I know that in our case, we did NOT opt for the top public high schools in this area which has some of the very top schools in the country. In our case, our kids just were not a good match for those schools. For one thing, they would have been blocked from taking the more advanced courses including the AP courses since gate keeping is strict at those schools. Also it is very competitive to get any of the "goodies" at those schools. I preferred for my children to be able to have opportunities to do things without too much competition. What good is having all of those great programs in a school if one's child cannot gain access them? </p>
<p>We ended up sending a couple of our kids to rigorous independent school that is even more academically oriented than the best high schools in the area. But what you get when you pay for such schools is equal opportunities for your kids. No try outs for much of anything. Everyone gets a chance to do. It allowed my kids to do it all. It also allowed them to take the advanced courses though they were not top students. They learned to write well, read classics, got lots of attention. It was not a dog eat dog type of situation that the public high school that had so many high performers, is. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I was not interested in getting a bigger, better house in areas here where the high schools are not good. The safety issues of some of those schools and the peers in those schools were not what I wanted for my kids. I think I was right. My knuckleheads are too easily influenced, and I wanted the influences to be positive in those formative years. In our situation, we needed all the help we could get. I know many kids who are not that way, and for them, I agree, any school would have been fine. I also met kids that needed even more of a support and more detail in school than my kids as they had specific problems that needed to be addressed. </p>
<p>I saw many times in our sons' private school, kids who would have done very well in the public schools but with the deflated grades, no weighting and high standards, they did not do as well. When the average SAT of a school rivals that of the top colleges, you just do not stand out as easily. It is entirely possible that some of those kids would have done better in the college lottery had they stayed in their school districts. However, many had a better high school experience by going to the private school.</p>
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They learn over the years that the valedictorian from a certain hs has garnered a high gpa but still can't write a solid term paper or juggle the competing demands of five or six challenging college-level courses.
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<p>Maybe I'm naive, but the valedictorian who can't write a solid term paper or juggle challenging courses doesn't reflect on the student who comes along a year or two later, no? They're different people.</p>
<p>One admissions counselor - or two - mentioned that the university "tracked" (for lack of a better word) high schools. If top students from a particular hs are continually ill-prepared, then it is noted. On the other hand, some hs consistently send students who do well at a particular college - and yes the admissions officer takes note. It doesn't mean that a particular student from a hs with a poor track record will be denied admission, but may perhaps be looked at a little more closely and "top student" taken with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Btw - counselor at s's hs told us that Duke U sends an acknowledgement of some sort for the top ten gc letters it receives each year - or at least used to do so. Gc got one, but Duke called first to see if perhaps he did not want the acknowledgement as the student was rejected. The gc gave an accurate assessment of a highly intelligent young man - not liked or respected as he deemed his intellligence superior to all those he knew. (Again a way of tracking the validity of various hs recommendations is the honesty of recs.)</p>
<p><a href="Again%20a%20way%20of%20tracking%20the%20validity%20of%20various%20hs%20recommendations%20is%20the%20honesty%20of%20recs.">quote</a>
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<p>Yes! I think that is very important. High schools earn the trust of admissions people when they give truly honest assessments of their students.</p>
<p>When discussing tracking of students and the importance of the LOR written by GC and teachers should we not consider that the many schools which are SUPPOSED to do all of that "monitoring" are receiving 20,000 to 30,000 applications per year and have entering clasess of 1,500 to 2,000 students? Divide this number of applications by the number of readers and one might start to understand how little time is devoted to scrutinize each and every application. Are 40,000 to 60,000 LOR really scrutinized and ranked? By whom and and at what cost? </p>
<p>I maintain that most of the stories about GC's role are simply **fantastic **tales that are simply repeated to ensure the myths live another year. The buzz word of 2008 in admissions is transparency, and I doubt that you'd find many directors of admissions who will accept or endorse policies based on favoritism and cronyism, or even admit such policies ever existed at their school. </p>
<p>This does not mean that colleges and universities are not keenly aware of the schools that are preparing their students better than the average school in the country. Further, it is not a matter of luck that the best students at the best college preparatory high schools end up with superior results in admission cycles. It is however also extremely doubtful that this success has much to do with the role of a GC with connection or superiorly crafted LOR. </p>
<p>Perhaps, we should remember the dwindling success of a school such as Boston Latin with the most prestigious schools. While it is doubtful that the college contacts of the leaders of Boston Latin have not diminished over the years and they have not forgotten how to write LOR to local schools, the destination of their students has changed.</p>
<p>Xiggi - I agree it is not personal one-on-one relationships that much. But I do think hs curriculum reputation matters a great deal. In fact, I'd argue that it matters more as the volume of applicants increases.</p>