<p>Even within my school board in Ontario, marks vary ridiculously. Teachers at my school make it a point to bring marks down. I was talking to kids at another school in the same board and when they saw my bio notes they shook their heads and said they'd never seen anything like it. Their tests are ridiculously easy. The thing that sucks about Canadian universities is that they don't take into consideration the different difficulty levels and base their scholarships largely on the numbers. I could work my butt of and get and get 80% while another person who does no work and understands considerably less gets a 99%. (I could also go on to talk about how differently teachers at the same school teaching the same class mark - one teacher's class average is 94 while another's class average is 69).</p>
<p>I totally agree that Canada needs standardized testing procedures (it was actually a discussion topic in my Gr.12 law class last year, interestingly)! I mean, the level of marking "harshness" even varies within the SAME school!! My chemistry teacher last year, super old-fashioned guy, thought that 75% is a DARN awesome mark, while in Economics this year, I've not only gotten perfect on everything, I've also got 20+ bonus marks banked. Stuff like this REALLY makes you question the credibility of marks...</p>
<p>strongly agree with you, lubinli, samething happens in my school also</p>
<p>btw, I find grading system in BC is a bit easier than QC and Ontario, dont know if its true</p>
<p>I agree with you guys on that as well, I think standardized testing is a must in Canada</p>
<p>Why do you think there is no standardized testing in Canada as of yet? It's something that I was baffled by after coming to Canada.</p>
<p>I think it's the whole "Equality doesn't equal to Equity" thing. People would argue that each province/territory is too different from each other to have a nationally standardized test. I, of course, by no means agree to the argument.</p>
<p>I think one of the biggest reasons is that of the differences between British and French Canada. The Quebecois like to maintain their own education system in particular, and so it might be more difficult for all of Canada to have a standardized test despite each province's independent and unique curriculum.</p>
<p>you r right, last time the ivies officers came to a university fair in QC, they told me dat they have a totally different scale to judge QC kids apart from other Canadians</p>
<p>on the other hand, a natioanal exam can also be divided into provincial exams with more credit than the one now.(QC provincial exams only counts 10~50% of each subject I think)</p>
<p>Standarized testing takes way from learning. I graduated from high school in BC and we have standarzied provincial exams. However, all that happens is that teachers only teach to the exam. Most of my teachers just used old provincials as tests. So really what do we learn? How to write an exam. Moreover, for English, all you learn is how to write a BS 500 essay about some BS topic. Standardized testing doesnt equal the playing field, it advantages those students whose teachers 'teach the test'. Additionally, standarzied testing destroys education - you only learn what is tested, when learning should be an exploration. </p>
<p>However, that being said, something does have to be done. At my school, an 89 or 91 in most classes was outstanding, however, at some school sits easy to achieve a 95 or better because everything is m/c. Maybe a national teaching standard without standarized tests though - teachers are just required, for example, to have written tests instead of m/c, but the tests themselves are not regualted. I dont know. </p>
<p>But standarzied testing is a bad idea.</p>
<p>I agree with the above poster. Yes, at my school in BC, every class's curriculum is shaped in concordance with the materials on the "provincial exams." All we talk about each class is "how to score higher on the provincial..." and this virtually deprived all time for valuable class discussions and other more worthwhile activities. </p>
<p>However, I do think that it is actually necessary to have a standard form of evaluation through the entire nation, something like the SAT Reasoning Test or the ACT. It doesn't have to cover a specifically required curriculum, but instead tests the student's general critical reading/thinking, math, and writing abilities, which are essential to successful college education.</p>
<p>if the exam doesnt reflect the learning that you need from a high school education , then thats the exam makers' fault. No exam can perfectly reflect what we want, but we can make the exams to be almost perfect</p>
<p>when you refer to the lack of standardized tests in canada, are you referring to standardized exams or to a test comparable to the SAT?</p>
<p>I think we are talking abount some standarized exam that seperated from our high school grade as another aspect in terms of university decisions</p>
<p>To update this thread with a 2007 comment: I am the mother of a U of T '07 graduate. She was 6th in her H.S. school class taking mostly AP and science/medical science classes. She opted for U of T over US schools for "something different." Right. By the time her 4th year rolled around she had barely time for anything but books. She forced herself to volunteer once a week at a soup kitchen and play indoor soccer now and then. Other than that, she never went out.
Canadian expectations are wayyyyyyy higher than those here in U.S. With a 4.7 GPA in grade 12, she barely made a 3.0 by second year, and was praying to pass her classes to graduate sr. year. I asked why. She said (an excuse? reality? I'll never know for sure) that profs are 'required' to set a passing mark so a certain number of students make grade __ and others don't pass. U.S. schools on the other hand, you study and you take tests that are geared so that the top students get 100%. Canadian schools don't have a "top" score, it seems; rather they make tests incredibly hard so that the top students still have the top scores, but they're about 80-85% (MAYbe 90) and the mediocre students are in the 50s-60s.
I just wanted to share this and update this thread. I wish I had seen it 4 years ago, to be prepared for what was to come. The end result? A GPA she is ashamed of and now must explain herself when it comes time to apply to grad schools here in the States. She's taking time off to work (at Duke Medical Center, in a breast cancer research lab, so SOMEbody must think she's competent) and hope the work experience outweighs the crappy grades.</p>
<p>IMHO, the differences in grading do not reflect on the quality of the education imparted, but rather illuminate the differences in old-world and new-world educational philosophies.
In Italy, grading is harsh. Students are punished rigorously for poor performance and barely rewarded for outstanding performance. This is called negative reinforcement.
In the US, grading is much less strict. Students are mildly discouraged from poor performance and richly rewarded for outstanding performance. This is called positive reinforcement.
In the end, it comes down to whether you want to make the next generation crave success or abhor failure. Standardized testing makes the issue of grade inflation/deflation moot, or at least has the potential to do so.</p>
<p>Huh? I heard that grading in Italy is ridiculously easy, at least that's what my friends who studied at Bocconi said. 27/30 is apparently a pretty lousy grade there...</p>
<p>hockeyteach,</p>
<p>I grew up near College and Bathurst and lived most of my life around Toronto. All my siblings attended U of T. My spouse and many friends went there as well.</p>
<p>I am not sure if they still weed students in higher years. My understanding is that most of the weeding is done during the first year and that you are fairly safe after that. Grading, on the other hand, is a different story.</p>
<p>It seems to be a general rule in Ontario universities to keep the average grade in a large class around a C to C+. Personally I think it unfair since the average entering grade varies from university to university and from program to program. A grade of 75 from Waterloo's system design engineering is very different from a 75 in sociology from Windsor.</p>
<p>Things, however, are not as bad as your D may think. She will be pleasantly surprised how well American adcoms know about U of T and its grading standard. My siblings all scored in the 90 something %tile range on standardized tests with little prep when they decided to go to graduate school, even though they averaged no higher than a B to B+ in their years in U of T.</p>
<p>What your D may be missing out on is bragging right. Just remember this is Canadian standard and Canadian grading. People who need to know do know.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>im new to the forum im just here to say that school in europe is the hardest school then comes canada and then the states i have been to all 3... i lived in serbia and went to grades 1-5 and then moved to canada and started in grade 6 and i was confused bcuz the stuff we learnt in grade 6 in canada were things i learnt in grade 2or3 in serbia so i didnt start learning anything new until my first year of highschool in grade 9 and i stayed in canada until half way of grade 11 and had a 98 avg in grade 9,97 in 10 and 11...half way through 11 i moved to texas and went to grade 11 to finish off and grade 12 and it was much easier in the states then canada its diff. bcuz in canada you really have to earn your marks but in the states you pretty much read from books and are given marks.in europe its much much harder education wise because some days you will have 14 classes a day and each lasting almost an hour and if u were to fail one class of those 14 u fail the whole grade and everyday u have different classes someday u can have 12 another day u can have up to 15 thats how it was for me. it was much harder u have no time to go out or be with friends bcuz its so hard. i like the european system much betetr bcuz you learn it as a kid and it stays with you bcuz ua re able to memorize and remember better and it really helped me bcuz wen i came to canada in grade 6 7 and 8 i knew everything bcuz i had learnt it in europe .</p>
<p>^^^Riiight.... thank you for not trolling.</p>
<p>Top US universities are harder than any Canadian university. On the other hand, they also have more support structures, so...</p>