<p>I've been a member of this forum for less than a month, but I've noticed that it seems honors and awards have become more important than experiencing the event that led to them. What is wrong with enjoying music for the sake of performing? Or volunteering because one loves helping others? Why must everything be quantified?</p>
<p>I got upset after reading that kids are being turned down when they have won state honors for their music ECs because the awards aren't high enough or because too many students have the same achievements. Isn't learning to play an instrument or singing reward enough in itself? Why must one be the winner or have a long list of awards? Isn't is enough just to be good at something? A young relative tried out for a major music award in voice. She was a semifinalist but that meant nothing for college applications, even though she beat out thousands of other students to get that far. The application asked only for the awards or honors won over the years, not the near-misses.</p>
<p>If I were a student today applying to college, I would be very discouraged by this unless I were the best in my areas of interest. Not everyone can be the best. Sometimes being good and loving your interests are good enough, aren't they?</p>
<p>Mrs P
Agree. My son plays guitar and he loves it. Plays every day -teaches himself different blues, jazz and rock numbers. Has his friends over to play every weekend. He's actually pretty good but he does it just for fun. But of course, colleges don't respect guitars and he had no awards to list on his college applications. Maybe that's one of the reasons he was rejected from one of his top schools and waitlisted at another. But we don't care. He's having fun, and he did get into some perfectly fine colleges (he's an excellent student). I know his love for his guitar will help him enjoy life (much like his love of tennis and the outdoor skills he learned as an Eagle Scout). He may not have had the most impressive list of ECs but he really enjoyed what he was doing and these actiivties will follow him through his life. I agree - we need to stop the emphasis on quantifiying everything. Do what you love.</p>
<p>I totally agree about doing things you enjoy, not for the sake of winning awards. But in the case of your relative who was chosen from among thousands of others to become a semifinalist for a music award, I don't see why this could not be listed on her application as an award or recognition, even if she did not win one of the "top" awards in this particular competition.</p>
<p>Not all schools participate in those activities. Some don't even give out honors, or have very limited honors available to students. National Honor Society sounds good on the resume for those who make it, but the large schools limit the number who can join. Some very qualified students are not invited to become members.</p>
<p>MotherOfTwo, I don't know why she couldn't list it, but I think it was because she was not given an actual award. She has some other activities she can list, along with her performance resume, which is extensive. But she doesn't have an actual awards.</p>
<p>I totally agree. I teach music and hate it when it's obvious a student is only taking lessons to do Guild or Federation for their resume. Give me the student who truly loves playing for their own enjoyment anyday!</p>
<p>agree,agree,agree....S plays football for his h.s. He loves football beyond words. It is his only real ec other than his part-time job. He is very dedicated (has never missed a practice or game) and is an above average player (was capt. of jv team but jv doesn't really count) BUT he will probably never receive an award for it.</p>
<p>Colleges will never know how many hours he spent in the weight room or how many times he stayed after practice to clean up the locker room or that in his best game ever (thus far) he had 3 sacks and 18 tackles...because there aren't awards for that. He just loves the game and being one of the "hogs" on the line!</p>
<p>S is now through the app process, but it seems that many of his apps asked how much time the activity took (hours/day for how many weeks). So, even without awards, some adcoms would see your son's commitment to his sport.</p>
<p>S had a successful senior soccer season, and did receive some nice post-season recognition. However, his applications were already in by the time the awards were announced, so all the colleges had to go on was the time he had devoted to his sport. In our conference, most of the awards go to seniors (exception: future D-I recruits), so few of the winter or spring athletes could include awards on their college applications.</p>
<p>Packmom- yes, most apps ask how many hours. My son spent at least 20 hours a week on football, not to mention the physical challenges and risks. He spent many a night in the ER either for himself or his teammates. There's a special place in my heart for football players because until he played, I never realized the impact on his or my life...the courage, the fear, the loyalty, personal growth... Had he spent that same amount of time on academics, he'd have been val. Unfortunately, the things he was encouraged to "spotlight" in his resume were those that he invested maybe an hour or two per week- student government, NHS, academic clubs. But those were the things he received "awards" for. </p>
<p>Most of the apps have a space next to the activity to describe the student's role. I'd advise your son to use it to spotlight his stats. Anyone who knows football would be very impressed.</p>
<p>
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I got upset after reading that kids are being turned down when they have won state honors for their music ECs because the awards aren't high enough or because too many students have the same achievements.
[/quote]
I'm not sure that is true -- I think that's just a rationalization that people have when they get turned down. I'll bet plenty of musicians without awards get admitted to excellent schools -- and recognized for their music, as long as application supports the extend of involvement. I'm not saying that honors or awards hurt.... obviously, that's also nice -- but I don't think that it is the only route.</p>
<p>As a relative newcomer to this forum, please keep in mind that a lot of what you read here falls in the category of urban myth.</p>
<p>As to the list of "honors" that college applications seek -- my daughter left that part blank. She documented her extensive involvement in dance - (as a choreographer and performer, not a competitor) - via a detailed dance resume and a DVD of her choreography.</p>
<p>I'm concerned about that page of honors some of the apps want. What happens to the students with no honors and no unusual achievements? Is it OK to be "good enough" in music or a sport, without being at the top?</p>
<p>The point is, my daughter didn't have awards or honors and she got into excellent colleges. She provided detailed information about her primary EC which clearly demonstrated her depth of involvement. Most of the colleges did not have a separate section on the application form for "awards" - but for those that did, the area simply was left blank. </p>
<p>To get into a competitive college the student needs:
a) Excellent grades
b) Very good test scores
c) A strong college prep curriculum
d) Personal factors, such as ec's, to differentiate the applicant from the others.</p>
<p>There are many different ways to approach the 4th category. My personal view is that the applicant has a story to tell, and the way to tell the story depends on what the story is. You figure out the story first. Awards are a short-cut way of demonstrating achievement or commitment, but certainly not the only way.</p>
<p>On the applications for state schools that S1 applied to, there was no space for telling your story. There was only fill in the box spaces for "honors and acheivements,varsity sports and other ec's. Some had no "essay" question at all and others had essays but were for specific questions posed on the essay like why do you see yourself at x college or what community service has meant to you kind of thing.</p>
<p>In my limited experience with state systems - 2 kids, 1 system - the reason they don't leave a lot of room for writing is that they admit mostly by the numbers (class rank, GPA & test scores). Our flagship school even kindly provides a grid on its website so that you can estimate your chances for acceptance. Half of the on-line application is devoted to verifying that you deserve in-state tuition. The "essay" is a short answer to the question "Why State U?"</p>
<p>So, if your system is like mine, the adcom probably doesn't pay nearly as much attention to the activities/honors as the privates do. S1 was admitted to the second-most selective state school by the numbers; he had few activities and no honors. S2 was a more complete applicant, but I don't think he would have been admitted to the flagship without the right set of numbers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm concerned about that page of honors some of the apps want. What happens to the students with no honors and no unusual achievements? Is it OK to be "good enough" in music or a sport, without being at the top?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First of all, MrsP - as Calmom points out, we don't really know the answer to your question because of the urban legend aspect of all the advice you will hear here - none of us, except the few admit officers that post here, really know hwat ittakes. AND I bet they can't predict for any individual kid.
Having said that, I think what they really want to see is a kid who has dimensions outside of schoolwork, who is, if you will, a complete person. They don't necessarily need accolades if they have an interest that they spend significant time doing, if they can write about the activity in a meanigful way that shows they truly enjoy doing that activity, and have accomplished something they are proud of and enthusiastic about.
InterestedDad gave some advice the year my D applied that I think is some of the best about ECs I've ever read here. I'm paraphrasing, but here goes - be brief and succinct, throwing in every last little honor roll mention doesn't necessarily help, an app should lead the reader to be able to come up with on or two bullet points about the child that can be written on an index card and call the app to mind - like the pianist with the great essay about working with the piano tuner or the kid from Arizona who tutors immigrant kids, etc and finally, the activites that are highlighted, that the brief answers on the CA are written about, are the activities that the child truly loves, that hopefully play up their academic or personal strengths - the application should have a "theme", if you would.</p>
<p>My daughter's centerpiece activity was one that she was only able to pursue for a short time, one that she did get elected to a leadership (VP) position, but didn't win any awards. But it was something she truly enjoyed, was a little unusual, was outside school and she was able to write briefly but eloquently about. They can violate "the rules" if their academics are strong and they come across as genuine.</p>
<p>I think success will depend on the type of the schools your child is applying to. Yes, state schools are usually very number oriented (but some like UVA also carefully consider ECs and essays). The top 20 schools, including Ivys, are hard to predict. Some of them are more numbers focused, others are looking for specfic talents. Awards may help but they're certainly not a guarantee of admissions - and those with committment but no awards may make the cut. Now, it also seems that the top 50 schools are getting harder to predict. Many of my son's friends were waitlisted at schools like Bucknell, Lehigh, and Boston College ,with good numbers, EC profiles, and awards. Cangel makes some good points about creating a theme and showing the adcom a full (and interesting) story. However, I don't think there is any magic formula for getting into any particular school (especially those in the top 50). Pick a good spectrum of schools, and give it your best shot. I think doing what you love is always the right choice, regardless of what it means for college admissions. Show your passion and committment - with honors and awards or not (and use your creativity to work outside the boundaries of applications if neccessary). Even if you don't get into your top choice schools, you can feel good about how you spent your time. The "resume builders" get rejected too - imagine how they feel.</p>