The Duke Stereotype?

<p>Hello, this is a friend of RaspberrySmoothie's. I wanted to write and give you the other perspective of Duke especially after I saw incollege88's post.</p>

<p>I spent my freshman year at Duke and absolutely hated it. I could start with a million different points but first I'll address drinking. While the East Campus is supposed to be dry, I saw rampant alcohol abuse among the people I lived with. While most college kids do a fair amount of drinking, at Duke, I felt completely pressured to drink after games, on weekends, in fact, all the time. I found this not only annoying, but detrimental to my class work, as I'd have to deal with drunken roommates doing stupid stuff at all hours of the night.</p>

<p>Also, Duke is not intellectual at all. The students there are smart, but accomplished only in the sense of either polishing their resumes for medical school (the small aggregate of crazy, intense pre-med types), or business/law school so they can eventually join Daddy's company and retire at the age of 40 without having learned any common sense or had any real education at all. Incollege is wrong about having intelligent conversations on campus. The longest conversation I witnessed was one night at Bakus (a great restaurant- one of Duke's only redeeming features) between two girls who were arguing about whose Louis Vuitton bag was cuter. I am not joking: this is the type of conversation that I heard all throughout campus- in the dorm, at the dining hall, even in the bathroom. When I visited Brown, Yale, even Penn (which I do not consider all that intellectual) the students seemed really interested at the topics at hand, whether it was world politics, philosophy, or science. </p>

<p>You will find the same in Duke classrooms. Peek into a classroom and you'll find students scribbling into their notebooks, not because they care about the material, but because they must get good grades. I've heard many, including Duke professors, complain that nobody really ever voices their own opinion in class or argues with the professor or even speaks up. They prefer learning material like sponges, just soaking up knowledge never to be used again except as a mark on the transcript. When I tried discussing class material with people outside of class, all I got were blank stares and clasmates saying, "What? But I thought that wasn't on the test." It was one of the most disheartening and disappointing discoveries I made about Duke, but certainly not the last.</p>

<p>What bothers me is that despite Duke's on-paper "diversity," there is no interaction betwen races, or social groups- for that matter- at all. While you will find your fair share of high-society snobs at any prestigious college, at the Ivy Leagues (and some other schools) I visited, they seemed perfectly qualified, and did not stand out at all. It seems to me that Duke, not quite secure in its position as a superior college yet, depends heavily on development cases and rich, obnoxious East Coast snobs. You have the jocks, Southern belles, boarding school preps, annoying Long Island/New Jeresy jappy crowd who dominate the frat scene- and then everyone else. Self-segregation? Please- that's a euphemism. I found it incredibly ironic when Philip Kurian's anti-Semitic article had negative backlash- particularly because his accusers are very the same people who I have personally known to be racist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic, in the worst sense of each. It was perfect- especially since they considered themselves so "open-minded," with their token black or gay friends. It makes me sick even thinking about it.</p>

<p>Speaking of homophobia, Duke is very, very unreceptive to homosexuals. I had friends who were GLBT groups on campus and complained of this often. Although most Duke students didn't mind their existence, godforbid they should actually try to get something done, like bring gay speakers to campus or organize similar events. The majority of the Duke population is perfectly content in their apathy- just as long as the basketball team's winning and they're in the right fraternity.</p>

<p>There is a pervasive feeling of "sports or die" on this campus. As you all know, the basketball team is pretty good- which for some reason, compels everyone to prioritize it over everything else. Note incollege's quote: "(thought I have met people who have never watched a game--heretics!)" and this will describe the average Duke student's attitude toward anyone who isn't fervently in love with Duke sports teams. I know incollege was joking, but most students are dead serious about the sports teams, and the athletes here are idolized. While I have nothing against sports, and even played varsity basketball in high school, I draw the line at going to a basketball game instead of studying for tests, participating in extracurricular activities of my own, and traveling. One former friend told me he'd rather stay instead of spending a term abroad in Spain because, "Man, how could I stop going to the games?" That, to me, borders on obsessive (a common attitude toward sports at Duke) and results in sadly, lack of funding for other resources such as the drama and art departments.</p>

<p>Well, Ben, you might say. At least you have Durham, right? Wrong. Durham has been called the "armpit" of the Research Triangle area, and for good reason. Maybe I tolerate cold weather better than warm weather, but I found the weather consistently hot, sticky, and humid- and the town a terrible place. There are clusters of nice areas, but they are mostly surrounded by dump. If you don't believe me, visit the "Heart of Durham:" the Durham hotel and note its broken windows. If you ever want to leave campus, don't count on Durham as a refuge.</p>

<p>I grew up in a perfectly normal suburb. I like sports, I like learning, and I wasn't even a loser in high school. I am, in most respects, a normal college guy. But a place like Duke, I found hundreds of kids just like me: insecure in such a narrow-minded campus, but all too scared to say anything. While I am not saying there are students perfectly suited to Duke, in retrospect, I think it's amazing how oppressive the environment is to people who don't fit in a certain way. After one horrible freshman year, I transferred to Brown and am thrilled to have made the right decision. I cannot find the heart to recommend Duke as a good undergraduate experience to anyone who wants it to be intellectually fulfilling, diverse, and fun. Take this post with a grain of salt but remember to not make your college decision based on a few catalogs, or a few perky guides.</p>

<p>-Ben</p>

<p>Rasberrysmooothie"s "friend" makes a great point. Every college is not for everyone. For some, there is nothing wrong with a conservative pre-professional atmosphere. Many students can actually prove to be be both pre-professional and intellectual and thrive in an evironment like Duke. Those same students would probably hate a more liberal atmosphere like that found at Brown. That's why fit is an important consideration.</p>

<p>1sokkermom, I am a hardcore liberal but I love Duke I am just very enthralled at the prospect of going there so i dont think that politics comes into account here</p>

<p>"Liberal" is a relative term, Semp555. It may refer more to lifestyle and outlook than simply your political persuasion. </p>

<p>Good luck with your college choices!</p>

<p>oh no , I am politically, ideologically and overall, very liberal and I think that having a nice change of atmosphere at perhaps a school that is in the south and a bit more conservative would be a very good experience for me.</p>

<p>btw, I got a handwritten letter from the admin office, so I am pumped at the idea of getting an acceptance letter. It is really the personal touches that make the difference for me!</p>

<p>WELL, ben...all i can say is WOW.</p>

<p>Being a black guy who is actually looking for an academic and social challenge, i am never disgruntled or discourgaed in anyway by people like you.</p>

<p>I know that, at every school, people have differnt opinions, and, maybe your particular experience wasnt...well...the best.</p>

<p>If 8 out of every 10 people say that they love Duke...something must be right about it. </p>

<p>While i consider what you wrote, i wont take it as gospel, to be honest, because ur just one voice with ur opinion.</p>

<p>Thanks Tho</p>

<p>I think it is good that other people can hear different perspectives. But honestly, it seems as though "Ben" just didn't have the confidence or social skills to branch out a bit and get out of his comfort zone. It's funny that Ben transferred to Brown because I just visited my friend there and found it to be just as segregated in so many ways. I mean athletes would ONLY associate with athletes, and there was PLENTY of racial self-segregation in the cafeteria (don't lie). I found a lot of kids there to be snappish and rude and MORE CONFORMIST than here in that everyone who wasn't an athlete looked like they hadn't taken a shower in days and were dressing in their parents' college clothes. I am as liberal as you can get socially and fiscally but I found the disdain the students there exhibited to conservatives and ROTC kids to be disgusting. It also seemed like a lot of kids still had big inferiority complexes vis-a-vis not getting into Yale/Stanford. I have really good gay friends here and I know that it's not the most gay-friendly place but they are the first to admit they haven't experienced homophobia but rather the lack of a strong gay presence. </p>

<p>I mean if you're the kind of person who's not very active or social then maybe you'll have that kind of experience here but I think his comments were very far off. Did you try being friends with black kids here, Ben? Did you try making friends at all, because you obviously have a very skewed perspective on the school. Did you try talking about ideas in a way that wasn't pretentious or pseudo-intellectual but rather constructive and informative? Did you try speaking up in class? Did you have any seminars? Anyway, I could go on but I think people here already know to take different views in their own contexts and judge a school on more than one dissatisfied kid.</p>

<p>"Ben" makes some points that have some truth. One thing that I have found to be true in some capacity is that the atmosphere is definitely not thick with intellectualism. People here are, for the most part, preprofessional (which is a growing trend in all of higher education, but that's another story) and very concerned with getting into med/law/grad school, so yes, figuring out how to ace the test does take precedence over discussing and digesting the information fully. I'm not sure how Duke relates to other schools in this regard, but the attitude that you refer to is here in some ways.</p>

<p>As for athletic "obsession"... not really. There are MANY that are obsessed, and they are very outspoken and visible, but most (by an overwhelming margin, I assure you) are not. A lot of people have relatively no clue what's going on athletically here, and they're just fine. Virtually everyone here has some notion that our basketball team is good, but for many people, it doesn't extend far beyond that. For me, it's just a perk that I get for going here. I have a great team to cheer for. But if we sucked I wouldn't leave the school.</p>

<p>But I'm glad you found the best school for you, Ben. Duke is definitely not perfect. The 96/7% freshman retention rate is pretty good though, and says a lot as to the quality of life here.</p>

<p>Yea, the retention rate said alot to me too, put aside the fact that i know 20 Dukies and alumni who all are always esctatic when they as much as talk about Duke. </p>

<p>I encourage you all who are considering Duke not to be misleaded by one negative comment...it is his opionion...but possibly a misleading one.</p>

<p><a href="http://forum.isi.org/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/3090060552/m/9330025762%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://forum.isi.org/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/3090060552/m/9330025762&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here is an interesting article about Brown just for comparison. The sections on Political climate and Campus life are very interesting. Just someone else's opinion that there seems to be intolerance and lots of partying (including drinking and drugs) there too. Depending on your outlook, it appears that these issues can be found at most college campuses. Again, everyone has an opinion. I would guess that based on this review, many students that are at Duke wouldn't be happy at Brown. That said, Brown is a terrific school.</p>

<p>I think part of the reason why a lot of students end up at Duke or equally competitive universities is because they have an obsession with merely aceing the test. In my high school, so many people didn't care when the teachers didn't teach, as long as they'd get their undeserved A, that's all that mattered to them. These people inevitably had high credentials, so they wound up at places like Duke. Although I cared about the A, I would prefer to learn and work to get an A than to be just handed one. But yes, people DO want to get the high grade in a class. Do you necessarily blame them?</p>

<p>I'm sorry that you never experienced any intellectual conversation at Duke. I just think it's laughable that you call someone who is presently AT Duke wrong for saying that it is a part of life here. I have had intellectually enriching and stimulating conversations both inside of the classrooms and outside of the classrooms. I won't lie and say that shallow conversations about designer handbags and clothing and whatever shallow things boys talk about don't happen on this campus, because they do. But they happen everywhere else. Go to UPenn-- it happens there. Go to Yale, it happens there. Hell- even look around your current school, trust me, unintellectual conversations occur there. I turned Brown down for Duke. I'm familiar with it. But it's very amazing to see the dexterity of these people who appear to be shallow insipid girls when they talk about politics or the world or biomedical ethics. You can learn SO much from someone who looks straight out of a fashion magazine if you don't prematurely judge them as a dolt who has nothing to offer. Maybe you hated Duke from the get-go, I'm sorry. It just looks like you let your desire to transfer out of Duke prevent you from actually finding your place here and enjoying the school. You call Duke a narrow-minded campus, and I think that's silly. Yes there are narrow-minded people here, but that's not a Duke phenomenon. It happens everywhere, even Brown (hell-- it happened a LOT at Brown when I was there). Personally, it looks like YOU narrow-mindedly looked and lived at Duke. There are kids on my floor who hate the sense of preppiness that pervades the campus and never drink and even tented with people who would drink on a Monday night because they wanted to get themselves wasted to start the week off. These people never once felt peer pressured to drink.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You can learn SO much from someone who looks straight out of a fashion magazine if you don't prematurely judge them as a dolt who has nothing to offer.

[/quote]

That is SO very true. It's so easy to judge people and try to classify them, but you'll be the one missing out. I have met a lot of people here that seem to be like the jocks that did nothing at my high school and they turn out to be really smart.</p>

<p>any1 want to comment more on the self segregation between races...as a black male that attends a moderately affluent public hs with a black population under 10% ive found the <em>self segregation</em> phenomenon in the cafeteria, classroom, even sports teams quite annoying...i have 2 make a concerted effort to branch and i catch heat from both races but i have grown used to it..is it even WORSE at duke?</p>

<p>Wow, im also black, and i attend one of the most affluent schools in my country...we have 4 'white' persons in my grade out of 75 or so... and none of them are fully white, 2 of them have a black grandparent and the other two has mixed parents.</p>

<p>I dont know how i will deal with being out of a totally black enviroment.</p>

<p>Im prepared for the challenge tho...</p>

<p>When I visited Duke, it did seem unfriendly and elitist(compared to the other schools I visited), but it was the only top 10 school that I applied to...That being said, it is still my first choice by far! Unfortunately, I do not think that I am gonna be accepted.</p>

<p>im sure ur gonna get accepted...dont worry...what are ur stats?</p>

<p>I have a lot of really good black friends here. I think if you're really like you say you are then you'll find there is no problem interacting with different races. Different races interact a lot more here than in my high school in New England, that's for sure.</p>

<p>After reading this thread resulted my excitement for attending Duke this fall (ED acceptance) has sky-rocketed. First of all, I love sports, I might not be exactly a jock, since I excel in less renown sports such as tennis and cross country, but many of my friends might be ignorantly described as jocks since they are on my school’s football and baseball teams. In other words, I hope the stereotype is true. In fact I hope all of the stereotypes are true, except the one about a lack of racial integration. I don’t intend to come off as a jerk or pretentious A$hole, both of my parents work and by work I don’t mean own Microsoft. Coming out of South Florida, I am departing a diverse area. I attend one of the most revered schools in the state, and I heard a rumor that 12 more students from my school were accepted RD in addition to the 9 ED acceptances. And it is not an upstate NY prep school. It is a simple public, magnet school with about 350 kids per class. And most importantly, it is only about 50% white with about 40% of the students being African American (I don’t know what is politically correct anymore). Though the lunch room may be segregated, the classrooms and individuals are far from it. Just because one chooses to predominantly sit with and interact with the same race does not mean that racial integration does not exist. I have friends of different races, and I can only hope to befriend individuals of different cultures at Duke as well. </p>

<p>Ok, lets talk about another topic. I see that many people are bothered by the lack of intellectual conversations at Duke. To begin here, maybe they are just waiting to be initiated. Take some initiative, and strike up a conversation with a peer and you may be surprised by the results that you get. As for me, I’m ecstatic. Don’t get me wrong, I love to spend long nites talking to my friends online about real abstract, philosophical matters, but when I am just trying to have fun, those type of conversations arent for me. Id rather pop upon a beer, place one of those skinny, JAP hotties under my arm, and tell funny stories til I pass out. And truthfully, that is what I want to remember about my college experience. I don’t plan to spend my nights studying in my room feeling indignant toward everyone having fun around me. If intellectuality is what you are seeking, I will happily engage in plenty of incoherent presumably thoughtful dialogues while under intense intoxication.</p>

<p>Time for some more blatantly unorganized rabble. As for the notion that frat-boys run the campus and that they rule all. Well... all the power to them. Duke was my predominant first choice university, but Emory with its incredible emphasis on the Greek system was my second choice. From my understanding, Duke’s fraternity life is not as prolific as at other schools, but as a hopeful future frat boy, I sure hope it is. I really do not intend to sound arrogant or superficial, but the initial poster mentions Duke’s “high-schoolish superficiality.” Fortunately, I am currently thriving in such an environment and for such success to continue, let’s hope that Duke is like that as well. I know it can be a harsh system and I do not condone it any form, but if it is what we are working with, then I might as well work it. I hope Duke is a big partying school and I really hope to as DMX says, “Party Up.”</p>

<p>I have never heard of any of those which I assume are snotty private schools such as Exetor, Gorton, Andover, or St Andrew’s. Well actually there is a St Andrews down here, I wonder if it is the one that he/she is referring to. In that case, they always have an excellent tennis team and I have a great friend who goes there. I never knew they were so notorious. A lot of money flows into that school I do know for sure. Regardless, I could care less where you come from as long as you are friendly and congenial. I have partied with kids from at least 5 different schools in this area, and I have never encountered any kind of major snob problem. Once everyone has had a little alcohol, its all fun and games. So do not worry about where everyone is coming from, cause we have all earned our spot (some obviously more than others, but still earned) in this esteemed university and we are all in the same position now (a small cramped non-air conditioned dorm room for the next 4 years... at least). </p>

<p>An A is an A. At almost any university there will be students who only seek the A rather than the knowledge. This is an integral part of the competitive world that we live in. Everyone is looking to have a step up on the competition. If that is how you want to operate, you run with it, you run hard with it. And don’t think that I am saying such an action is deplorable. I am probably considered one of those kids who only digest enough of the information to get my A. And hey, I consider it an admirable skill. I have worked hard my entire life to be able to draw pictures of ferocious monsters eating my teachers and still pull off that A in the final week of the quarter. In fact, I should offer lessons to anyone who desires such a useful skill. </p>

<p>That seems to be all I can think to write for the time being. I think I have produced a completely illogical response to each of the stereotypes listed and this post would most likely be better off not being posted. But hey, I am still in a bitter mood about Michigan State defeating Duke and I guess I just had a lot of stuff to say. I hope noone gets any wrong impressions about me. I mean I am the one who is sitting at home on a Friday night during Spring Break placing this post. What does that say about me? It says that I partied so hard the past few nights that I had to take a break tonight. Well that actually is true. I am freaking spent. Spring Break is tough on the teenage body. So I think I should wrap this up before I embarrass myself anymore. I think I just wanted to get this on the board to see if anyone feels the way that I do. Feel free to bash me or give an “intellectual” response cause we all know this post is far from that. With that being said, I am going to leave you all to your respective businesses and allow you to get on with your life. I know I need to. I look forward to seeing you all next year, it is going to be awesome. In the thought-provoking words of Lil John “til the sweat drops down my balls, my balls, all the females crawl, ahhh skeet skeet”</p>

<p>Diddy out</p>

<p>No, you're obviously not embarassed.</p>

<p>I dont really know what that means?</p>