<p>The term NGO until recently was mainly used in the context of international development and aid. Lately its been used for purely US based orgs - when I hear NGO I tend to think of a large policy oriented group in DC, while I tend to think of your local volunteer social service agency or hospital (or elite college) as a non-profit, but not an NGO. Ergo, NGO is a subset of non-profits. Thats not the literal meaning though, I suppose.</p>
<p>Soccergirl, the consulting jobs you describe do not fit into the elite category as we are skewed in this particular conversation, which are the management consulting jobs ivy grads are chasing.</p>
<p>What’s funny is there is less slack in the less elite technology consulting jobs. There is no fudging in those specific skill/ knowledge driven arenas in the way there is in say a young hire looking at big picture corporate strategy which is soft and subjective.</p>
<p>Ivy and top LAC grads have always been told they were hired for their critical thinking ability, something hard to pin down and hard to compare concretely between applicants making it easier to support the connected.</p>
<p>Management consulting firms continue to use SAT scores to replace much of your process!</p>
<p>I work for the Consulting division of one of the Big Four professional services firms in London. We recruit mainly from the top ten UK universities, incl Oxford and Cambridge, and we are known as one of the top firms for graduates to be recruited to</p>
<p>we do not have SATS here - A level results and degree classification replace this</p>
<p>what about any of this is not ‘elite’? </p>
<p>NB - I clearly prefaced my earlier post saying that this was the UK practice. No clue how the US firm operates as I have never worked there</p>
<p>In the US, many ivy grads and their peers are fixated on a small group of jobs. This includes those at bulge bracket investment banks, top private equity firms and the top management consulting firms. What most would consider great jobs are not among this crowd.</p>
<p>I was a trader for 25+ years for major firms- The Italians had a death grip on most trading desks right through the mid 90’s. Also, let’s all remember when you say “Wall Street” it does not mean only NYC- especially in today’s global markets, and hedge fund driven markets. Hedge funds are scattered everywhere and anywhere these people live or want to work- meaning a lot of lovely cities outside of major cities. </p>
<p>Finally, connections DO matter. Then and now. And it does start from sending your kids to the same prep schools as your co-workers, getting your kids the plum internships from your contacts in business, and giving their kids great internship opportunities in your business, and come graduation- these kids have the education (prep school sets the stage, whether they got into Ivy or not, everyone gets that the best and the brightest don’t only go to Ivy’s these days) and they have the internships…which helps them jump into the front of the hiring line. Maybe the first interview does not get them a job, but they have the boost, and get many more plum interviews.</p>
<p>Nothing in the US is a pure “meritocracy” especially these “elite” jobs.</p>
<p>Like many of the parents, I have had very extensive involvement in the recruitment process. The first level of filtration is indeed the demonstrated strengths in terms of the content of the transcript, together with the leadership profile as mentioned in the form of ECs, quality of the work during the summer internship and then the “Presentation Effect”, which will include clarity in thought process/communication. Also, in top consulting firms, the final interview process is a very tough one and Merit counts…all the way:))</p>
<p>I feel the dstarks comment is a self-fulfilling prophecy, an excuse as to why a college student can’t seem to find the opportunities.</p>
<p>My husband, a founding partner in what is now a multi-billion dollar corporation, went to public schools his whole life and none of the other partners went to any prep schools either (although they did go to excellent private colleges). They were all hired by a very well known Wall Street firm out of college where they met and worked together. It was from there that they put this firm together. They now hire the best they can find and do their recruitment from many different colleges, public and private. Theirs is a top firm where, if you work hard and are smart, anything can happen; your “pedigree” has nothing at all to do with your hiring or future. Oh, and I think my husband said they hired about 800 people in the NY metro area in 2010.</p>
<p>There is a guy from my high school, a large (4600 students) NYC public school who is now one of the wealthiest people in America - connections? No.</p>
<p>Talent and ability count more in America now than ever before. Creative thinking and inventing a better mousetrap will still get you somewhere. In this age of computers even those who don’t have great “people skills” can create and be productive, successful adults whereas in the past I believe they became accountants! (JK, sort of) Those with people skills and computer skills (real computer skills, not iMac skills) have unlimited opportunity.</p>
<p>The world is too competitive to give jobs away to the “right breed” of person.</p>
<p>BTW - like “plastics” in The Graduate, computer programming and computer engineering is the most guaranteed path to a profitable future! IMHO</p>
<p>“(although they did go to excellent private colleges)”</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>I was being a little sarcastic with the pre- school remark. You don’t have to go to the right pre- school to be a success; although, some people, don’t want to take any chances with their kids. They don’t want to miss an opportunity for their kids…even when their kids are two.</p>
<p>That is such a beautiful statement, and so true. Except I don’t know if all the people who ‘give jobs away’ know that it is true. I suspect it works a little like elite college admissions- legacy can help you but only up to a certain point. And you can’t fill the entire class with legacies. At least, it would not be good for your firm to do that.</p>
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<p>Looking back I’ve often thought how ‘plastics’ was probably the wrong advice at the time of The Graduate. I don’t know if it is ever possible to accurately predict what field will bring the most guarantee of a profitable future.</p>
<p>Very true, but you are missing the point. Going to a right pre-school, elementary, middle, high schools, moving on to right college, grad-schools and to right company provide a controlled environment for success.</p>
<p>Is that the only path to success? No, there are other paths but each one have more and more difficulties and less and less probability of success.</p>
<p>So, in the end it’s all about probability. In my view the probability; of an inner city, orphan girl to become a millionaire; is next to negligible but for a prep-school educated, well connected family boy; is infinitely high. Everything else falling in between.</p>
<p>In one case you have to do everything right to succeed while in other case you need to do everything wrong to fail.</p>
<p>We’ve so many examples in the real life. We’ve Opera succeeding but look at her life history. We’ve President Bush succeeding and look at his life.</p>
<p>POIH, I understand what you are saying (and don’t disagree) but I think you are missing the point made by amtc. The quote you cited is actually looking at it from the employer’s point of view. In today’s world where businesses compete with each other on a global level, employer cannot afford to make hiring decisions based on ‘breed’. An employer who gives up a chance to hire the most qualified and talented applicant risks losing out. Someone else, possibly a competitor, will hire that applicant.</p>
<p>I would agree if hiring is a black and white activity. I’ve been hiring for 15 years now and even after 8 people spending 8 - 10hrs you might choose a wrong guy. So unless some one is outright proven to be star in that field, the job still go based on the overall impression.</p>
<p>I’ll certainly hire a Stanford graduate over UC Davis graduate unless UC Davis graduate have proved to be a star in the field. The reason is that if you made it to Stanford then you have done something right in the past and is proof enough for the employers to bet on you than on UC Davis graduate.</p>
<p>You don’t have to go with my view. Checkout the successful rags to riches people who made big corporation. Do they give the command in the hands of people like them. No.</p>
<p>Apple CEO might be from Community College but the Apple Exec team is not.
Facebook CEO might be drop out but the FB team is only from top colleges.
You name it and I’ll give the examples.</p>
<p>Being from NY, I know nothing of UC Davis but I’m not certain a SUNY Binghamton grad would necessarily “outrank” a Stanford grad simply because of the school he/she attended. There’s a huge financial difference, but not necessarily an ability difference. Also, just because a student graduates from Stanford doesn’t mean he/she is the “right breed” it means he/she is intelligent/had great SAT scores/had a great GPA, etc. </p>
<p>Maybe because my husband went to a state school he hires state school grads, maybe because he finds MBAs uncreative (especially those from the more prestigious MBA programs) he’d rather go with a quirkier person. Maybe for all these reasons his firm started 25 years ago with 4 guys and now employs close to 100,000 worldwide. Creativity and intelligence are not necessarily what comes out of the elite universities or from breeding. </p>
<p>I checked out Apple Executive team and did not see an Ivy League or solid equivalent in the bunch.</p>
<p>Certainly in a lot of cases. A kid who graduated with my kid last year had an internship for 3 years at the investment firm (the biggest one) where his father is the CEO. He now is an employee. I guess he is doing “God’s work” like his father.</p>
<p>Then your H is not objective and can’t be considered as an input. If his attempt is to hire the best possible person then he will hire from elite as well as from non elite colleges.</p>
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<p>I mentioned Apple because Job didn’t hire Community College grads and opted for all University guys with BS/MS or MBA.</p>
<p>Scott Forstall
Senior Vice President, iPhone Software
Forstall received both a Bachelor of Science in Symbolic Systems and a Master of Science in Computer Science from Stanford University.</p>
<p>When I talk about elite colleges I refer to HMSPY not necessarily the Ivies.</p>