The EPSO Dilemma - CIE, AP, or Both?

As long as you’re a student enrolled in a HS, these classes are DE (considered the same as if they were AP, AICE, IB… for administrative purpose and for rigor estimation by college admissions).
You can take classes over the summer between junior and senior year as they’re considered DE.
However, because summer classes are super accelerated (they cover 1 semester in a few weeks - and remember that 1 college semester course = 1 full year high school course) you should NOT take more than 2 college classes per summer.
What matters is whether you’ve graduated HS when you take them, or not. Anything before HS graduation is NOT used in a “transfer” category for college admission.

I agree that Philosophy online would detract from a philosophy class/seminar experience! Ultimately, you can take what you can take. You’re not expected to square circles.You have to do your utmost to have a rigorous schedule, not bend over backwards and do flips. :slight_smile: BTW document your travails for your GC.

Isn’t your school block scheduling? Meaning that 1 semester = 1 carnegie unit = 1 “year” worth. So you have 2 carnegit units or two “years” of French.
I don’t think you should try both Chemistry and Biology DE at the same time, especially since the Fall will be very busy with writing applications (equivalent to a writing intensive class in terms of time commitment) and the fly-ins. Especially since you’re not expected, for the purpose of college admissions, to have more than one. Don’t make your life unnecessarily difficult.

Alright, so if I’m a maximum at two, what courses should I take? If I can’t take French II, should I have French I and General Chemistry I? That’s what I was initially planning. And of course, if I can replace French I with II, then there would be that replacement.
I’ll see if I can fit philosophy anywhere. I feel like I’ll be stuck with Early U.S. history unless I find something else. If I can’t take philosophy, what are some fail-safes, if any?
Yes, I have block scheduling.
I planned to take Chemistry in the summer and Biology in the fall.
This is getting very stressful… If I can’t incorporate Philosophy or French II, what should I do? If I can, that means I’d have to sacrifice a science class as intermediate French is strictly at Lee. It gets extremely complicated and my brain capacity for this stuff is decreasing.

I’m back again, and here’s what we had planned this time:

SUMMER:
Gen Chem I (currently enrolled)
FALL:
Beginning French I
Gen Bio I
SPRING:
Beginning French II
possible open slot (must be after 3:30)

The reason I’m only taking one class this summer is because the grant did not get approved in time for summer classes, so as a result my family’s having to pay out of pocket. Gen Chem I alone is $750. We can hardly even afford that.
Speaking of Gen Chem I, I’m worried about the class content itself. Im two days in, and it seems very easy. All of it was high school review so far but no new challenging concepts or anything. Am I really getting my money’s worth with this class? Is it really worth my time? Do you think it shows rigor? I ask the same thing for the Bio class. Do you think it will cover more than my AICE AS biology class? This is a COMMUNITY college after all…
I had to drop the early morning DE class in the fall because I was informed I could not take Personal Finance & Economics over the summer.
Does this look okay? Should I add anything else or remove anything?

Look at your syllabus. Typically general chemistry is the first class for would be pre-medz : it would pick up significantly and quickly.
Go talk to the professor. Ask for more problem sets of you don’t find those you have sufficient. Ask questions showing your interest for what you’re learning.
In addition perhaps your AICE classes aren’t as bad as you thought - but in any case a college chemistry class (even community college) should be more advanced than an AICE class.

Alright, I’ll have hope it picks up…
I want to boost my ECs so I can have a greater chance of getting into Vanderbilt. I have my eyes set on it. What other science extracurriculars can I do? What else can I do that makes me stand out? Sure, I have a 4.0 unweighted GPA and a 34 ACT (E:35R:36S:35M:30) I don’t think my current ECs cut it. I did score a lab intern at Lee for the summer, have a job, and am taking DE courses for all of senior year, but that isn’t enough or outstanding, is it? I really, really want to boost it, because I feel as if I’m a neanderthal compared to other applicants. I’ve been browsing other threads and no applicants I’ve seen have strong science ECs. They were just captains of some team or political organization. I do think I can write a very distinguished essay, but I really, really want to get into Vandy. I know it’s a reach, but I feel as if anything is possible with the right work. What else can I do?

Lab internship = do a very good job there. Do what you’re told (no it’s not a given :wink: ), observe then take initiatives to help, take notes on what you can. Perhaps the lab internship will continue in the Fall?
Keep your job. Having a job, being responsible, and doing well matters.
Start your commonapp account. (It’ll close briefly then reopen, with all contents rolling over).
In particular, start working on your essay.
Have a draft for 2 prompts by June 15. (Send them to me via pm - DO NOT post them here!)
Have a document with all supplemental questions listed by college.

Thank you for helping me out rather than telling me it’s just not possible. I told the lab supervisor I’d be willing to volunteer all year into the spring as well if needed. She seemed fine with that as well. I’ll be taking notes on what I can when I can.
What if I want to apply via questbridge? Their form hasn’t opened yet. Vanderbilt says it only accepts one form on their website. Which one should I use?
Will it have the format on there similar to the CommonApp?
I’ll send those prompts when I can, thanks again.

Yes, Questbridge is similar to commonapp. Their main essay is similar to Questbridge’s main essay.

Alright, I’m working on formatting the essay and application now. I really need to amp up my extracurricular game. All I can list is my job, the lab internship, and my membership of the National Honors society (a bunch of community service) which isn’t great or special. I thought about becoming a Vice President, but I was worried it would eat up time for more valuable science endeavors, so I didn’t take the chance. I’ve been researching opportunities, and all I can find is an observational opportunity at Vanderbilt’s medical center. Should I do that? It says it’s $36. Here’s the website with the details: https://ww2.mc.vanderbilt.edu/voe/ I already sent a request for my school to be entered into an agreement.
There’s also a summer session for Vanderbilt for 11th and 12th graders in July, but it’s almost $4,000, a 10% deposit of which is due one week into the session. Is the money really worth this experience? Will it give a boost to my “ECs”? I don’t want mine and my dad’s financial investments to be for naught.
I also had an idea I wanted your opinion on. Since I’m taking General Chemistry I and General Biology I and will be taking the second year (Gen Bio or Gen Chem II) of one of those in the spring most likely, do you think I should study for one or both AP Biology and AP Chemistry in conjunction? I think it would add an invaluable boost to demonstrate my love for the sciences, but I wasn’t sure how difficult that would be (ESPECIALLY for chemistry, as Vanderbilt, for some reason, only accepts a 5 for, and it’s already a very hard exam, so a lot of pressure would be on me) I figured you would know about that.

The summer session for high schoolers at Vanderbilt is just a moneymaker. Don’t think about it. The general chemistry class at a CC ( a serious college class, not a module for high schoolers) has much more value.

ECs: the number doesn’t matter.
Your job= how many hours a week? (A lot of hours automatically offsets fewer ECs)

The lab position= how many hours right now?

What did you do the summer after freshman and sophomore year?

Nhs doesn’t matter in itself, but in what you did - an action here and there or did you lead a sustainable project over several months?

Think of what you do/did when you’re not in class. (All of that is an EC.)

A good application is likely to be written and rewritten many times.

You’ve answered one prompt. Now, look at the other prompts and see if one can help you tell a different story. Take a few days to think it through.

Taking the AP exam won’t do anything. It’s only useful for credit - except that for sequential classes you do NOT want to take that credit, you want to take the actual class at the university that admitted you (unless it’s your flagship and you’re very confident).

Job: Anywhere from 20-30 hours a week.
Lab: 4 hours a week for now, will be modified if my schedule remains light
I didn’t do anything notable on those summers. Just explored artistry at that time. A lot of throwaway drawings.
It was mainly an action here and there. I tried to maintain a volunteer position at a local animal shelter but they always had little to nothing to do, and everything was taken care of.
When I’m not in class, I either work, take the summer class, the lab volunteer thing, do college research, or just create artwork. I did win a position at a local art show with my art and also won a scholarship at Lee for their competition.
I’m sure I’ll rewrite it.
Are you sure I shouldn’t try? Vanderbilt really likes AP exams, and selective colleges seem to admit people who take a lot of them.

They like APclasses but your school has an AICE curriculum. So they wouldn’t expect both.
As for scores they can be indicative but you wouldn’t have scores till well past decisions so it wouldn’t help you.

Your job would in itself be ranked #1 since it takes a lot of your time and hopefully you have stories about it :slight_smile:
Your art matters - do you continue painting/sculpting… now in your free time?

I mean, my job teaches me important skills about pink-collar jobs and customer interaction, which is one of my biggest weaknesses. I have made many friends there who tell me many things. I get a good understanding of lower-income people and how they operate instead of being discriminatory towards their choices.
I may look into the few books I have already on biology and chemistry, but I’ll keep your word in mind. The Common App does want AP/AICE exams you are also planning on taking, so that’s why I wondered.
I do traditional art - entirely drawing. I was planning to save up to purchase a digital device so I could make professional work and market it online as a hobby. I have a book I’m working on that documents the bird life in my area.

I’ve ben trying to do research on ranking colleges for the QuestBridge scholarship. Can you tell me of the factors I should consider when ranking my top 12 colleges? I’ve thought of distance, educational specialty (majority majors) and I wasn’t sure if I should include cost, since this is QuestBridge. What do you think?

Actually, it’s not “majority majors” but rather how good a specific program is (I can help with that) and “fit” (the college’s “personality” matches what you have to offer.)
You stand a greater shot for colleges 400+miles from home because you’ll offer geographic diversity.
You stand a greater chance at a successful match if you rank half universities and half LACs (note that if you’re interested in research or premed LACs tend to be more supportive.)
Some choices are counterintuitive :slight_smile:
Do you have access to a Fiskes Guide (school/college/public library)?

" I get a good understanding of lower-income people and how they operate instead of being discriminatory towards their choices." => such a sentence would hurt you in the admissions process, first because it sounds like you’re judging, and second because from colleges’ point of view it shows little self awareness (since you’re lower income yourself as far as colleges are concerned) - you should be expressing this as an “us” not as a “me v. them”… I get the idea but you’ll need to work on wording.
Try to think of ways, beside providing money, that your job teaches you skills that are different from what HS teaches you.
In addition, the way you use the money you make will matter (for essentials/to help your family, v. to buy leisure items, go to the movies, etc.)

That’s alright I guess, but wouldn’t out-of-state tuition cost me? That’s what the counselor at CSCC said when I asked her the same question. Furthermore, my family is concerned with me going so far out of state for that long, but I guess education comes first. It would be hard to leave them, but I’d do it if I could help them in the long run. As for biology, chemistry, and research programs, what are some of the best colleges that offer that? Vanderbilt seems one of them; maybe Emory, Duke, Davidson, Rice. All are under consideration due to their close range, but I guess I can factor in other colleges way out there too.
I get the bit about having too many prestigious universities on your ranking list, but as far as LACs go, upon looking up basic differences between the two, a university seems to offer intensive education, broader curriculum, and more research opportunities to fit my standard. Sure, I may have a greater chance at being selected at an LAC, but I really want to get the best education I can regarding my preferred majors. I don’t want to sacrifice quality for easier access. Not that I’m disparaging QuestBridge’s partners, as they’re all great, but I plan to further my education in research and master it as best as I can so I can contribute to the world at large with new scientific discoveries. That’s my life long drive. I want a college that offers intensive, specialized, and prolonged education in that very field. Vanderbilt seems to be just the perfect fit for me, and that’s why I am trying my hardest to get in. I’ve talked a ton with my Vanderbilt admissions counselor, I’ve contacted a Vanderbilt graduate to be of some assistance on a free app, I’ve scheduled a visit to Vanderbilt, I’ve registered for emails, I peruse their website for education info and summer programs, and I’ve even gotten two separate advertisements for Vanderbilt INCLUDING a financial aid assistance brochure, so they must know at least a little about me. I sent an official report of the ACT score to them, so that’s probably why I got that stuff. I am looking for anything and everything to further my chances of getting into Vandy. Is it close? Yes, maybe a disadvantage due to diversity. Is it a university? Yes, maybe a disadvantage due to competition. I’m willing to face them, though, and do whatever I can to boost myself since I’m at a disadvantage. There’s a scholarship listed in the financial aid brochure for those who have worked part time jobs to support the family. I believe I fall right into that category.
I wasn’t trying to say I was distant from my coworkers, but I can see how it’s implied. I came up with that in 2 minutes. I’ll work on wording. How about this?
“My job as a hostess really helps me in personalizing myself and fitting in with my own community. I socialize with many customers and staff alike and talk to many people from different backgrounds. My job allows me to connect one on one with the people in many areas of Tennessee and abroad so we can share stories and what we have in common. I do my best in my job to give everyone a friendly welcome and put aside racial, geographic, sexuality, age, and economic class divides for a casual and even fun conversation about what unites us all over a large tray of steaming deep dish pizza.”
(Now that I think about it the University of Chicago might like my work place experience a bit.)(Also, all the divides listed above are actually real: there’s a large black and Indian population in the area around my work and in work as well as people from out of the nation and the elderly, which can lead to discrimination against servers and tension among staff. Many divides in the staff itself include race, sexuality, and age. I try to ease these tensions by befriending them all. So many of my coworkers know about my academic performance and encourage me. That is one of the very few things that most of my coworkers agree on and are positive about: cheering me on. In turn, it makes them happy for me and me happy that they’re willing to support me despite my weaknesses.)
I can say with certainty that over 80% of my money goes towards strictly gas and food. Probably about 5% given to my father if needed, 5% for community donations, 5% for pet supplies, and 5% for leisures. I even have a pie chart from my pay app to prove those numbers fairly accurately. My money is primarily to support myself and indirectly support my father as a result, because he can’t really afford even the basics for me anymore due to overburden of loans, bankruptcy, liens, overpriced medical bills he can’t pay, business expenses, and IRS folly demanding thousands every year since he doesn’t get a paycheck which they can take taxes out of automatically. He’s trying to amend the years he got torn apart by a CPA, but he isn’t faring so well. I do my best to support him on the little money I make, but it is very hard with the attention I have to give to summer programs and school opportunities. He’s a fairly happy man, though. Sorry about that, I just thought I’d give you the two cents version of the low income part of my life. I don’t live in a shanty, but I do live in a double wide with a foundationb with overpriced rent. It isn’t easy. My MOTHER, though, is an entirely different story. (It doesn’t bother me to elaborate on this anyway, as it has been my life for as long as I know)
Feel free to offer help on “how good a specific program is” at certain schools. You can also tell me about “counterintuitive” selections. All in your own time, though.

Public and private universities don’t work the same when it comes to admission and financial aid.
Public universities have a lower sticker cost in-state. (OOS public universities are extremely expensive, unless you can get merit aid for your stats. Basically your test score: 34 is worth a lot of merit money but for most students with a score in the 24-30 range, in-state public universities will be cheaper).
Private universities are different. If they’re classified as national they need students from the entire country. However, outside of a handful universities, more students apply to universities within a 400mile circle. As a result, national universities/LACs will need geographic diversity. At meet full need universities/LACs, it means there’s a slight advantage to applying from far away. At universities that combine merit and need based aid, it means it ups your odds of merit.

I’m afraid you haven’t read a Fiske Guide. Please do.
In any case, LACs are exactly what you purport to want. Google " where science PHDs got their start" or “undergraduate origin of PHD”.
In particular, they’re institutions where professors are hired because of their ability to integrate undergraduates into their research labs. Your odds of doing research are much higher at a LAC.

Your paragraph about your job is better and makes things clearer.

I’ll look at colleges within a 400 mile radius and observe LACs like you said. (Vanderbilt does boast on their website that over 50% of undergraduates participate in research opportunities, though.) Looking at their sponsors, what would be best for me? If I look at a 400 mile radius map from my location, included states are:
-Illinois
-Ohio
-Arkansas
-Mississippi
-Georgia
-Alabama
-North Carolina
-South Carolina
-Virginia
-West Virginia
-Kentucky
-Indiana
-Florida
(I’m in Tennessee, so we’ll throw that state in too) Does this mean I should ignore colleges in even farther away places such as California, Massachusetts or New York? If we take the 400 mile radius, QuestBridge partners in these states include:
-University of Chicago (UNI, PRIV) (Illinois) (8%)
-Northwestern University (UNI, PRIV) (Illinois) (9%)
-Oberlin College (LAC) (Ohio) (34%)
-Emory University (UNI, PRIV) (Georgia) (22%)
-Davidson College (LAC, PRIV) (North Carolina) (20%)
-Duke University (UNI, PRIV) (North Carolina) (10%)
-University of Virginia (UNI, PUB) (Virginia) (27%)
-Washington and Lee University (UNI, PRIV) (Virginia) (22%)
-University of Notre Dame (UNI, PRIV) (Indiana)(19%)
-Vanderbilt University (UNI, PRIV) (Tennessee) (11%)
There are only two highly rates LACs within a 400 mile radius. The rest are mainly private universities. Should I pursue these in my rankings or should I go even farther out of state? All partners not listed are in either the New England states, Minnesota, or California, mostly.
I’ll buy the Fiske guide like you said when I have money. I want the 2020 edition, right?

You can just borrow the 2018 or 2019 guide from a library.
The universities you listed are VERY different: Washington &Lee is the most conservative LAC in the country, and Oberlin one of the most liberal. UChicago is intensely intellectual with z big core curriculum and Northwestern is a BIG10 school with all that implies wrt sport culture and Greek life.

Further than 400 miles= bringing geographic diversity in addition to socio economic diversity.

And show interest: fill out the request info form, click on emails they send you so they can track your involvement with what the messages.

I’ll see what I can find at my local library.
I figured they were really different, I just listed colleges within such a radius as a starting point. We’ll get into more details soon.
I filled out the request form a while ago, but no emails have come through from them yet.