The excessively disappointing Nature of "Ivy Day"

I’ve been thinking about this for a week, as the result of a suicide that has impacted people I know. The family and friends of the individual can draw a straight line from the college admission process, and in particular Ivy Day, to the tragic events that followed.

I don’t want to engage in a conversation about individuals. This is about PROCESS.

Why do we allow 8 schools to tell over 95% of our best students that they aren’t worthy in a coordinated, simultaneous attack?

I added up the total number of applications and acceptances for this year (for Cornell and Princeton who don’t publish, I used last year). There are over 400,000 applications and slightly over 20,000 acceptances. The Ivy-wide admission rate is 5%. Included in that 5% are the EA numbers, which include roughly 35% of the acceptances given…making the damage of Ivy Day worse.

There are kids who get multiple acceptances, but they also generate multiple applications. The point is not to do the math, but to consider what we’re putting kids through. Please avoid the temptation to address math issues…this is not about the numbers. 5% or 15%… both should raise the same concerns.

With all that kids go through, is it time that eight of the most elite educational institutions in the world find a more supportive and compassionate way to announce their admission results?

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It seems to me that Ivy Day is not the real issue here. The real issue is all the stress these kids are under in the many years leading up to Ivy Day.

The stress begins in elementary school- parents pushing their kids into G/T programs that they aren’t really qualified for, the push for kids to be perfect academically, athletically, etc, outside pressures on social media, etc.

The stress continues into middle and high school, where parents sometimes/often go against the advice of teachers and push kids into AP classes when “only” honors classes were recommended. Then these kids become exhausted trying to keep up and maintain grades, etc. Teachers get stressed for being “bad” teachers etc.

I think we need to take a step back and let kids be kids. We need to let them take classes where they can succeed and maintain their mental health.

They need to be reminded that there are many colleges out there where they will thrive.

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Rather than blame the institutions, it is imperative that families prepare their students for the very real probability that they will be rejected or maybe waitlisted and they need to apply to more realistic choices. By having Ivy Day so late, students should already have in hand acceptances to other fine schools.

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This mythology is what drives the whole thing. Certainly they are all fine schools, but we’ve put them on a pedestal that really isn’t justified.

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My heart goes out to those who have been negatively impacted by the college admissions process and any physical or mental harm that resulted. I am ignorant as to why there is an Ivy Day with all decisions announced on the same day. (I have some hypotheses, but nothing backed by factual knowledge.)

My question is, though, what would be a better way? Whether the decisions are delivered piecemeal as each college feels ready to release its decisions, or if they decide to assign each Ivy school a particular day, and then they all release in sequence, would it really be better for students’ mental health? Is getting 8 rejections in one day worse than getting a rejection a day for 8 consecutive days? Or just getting rejected to all 8, even if there are several days between each rejection? I think that no matter how one slices it, getting multiple rejections is very difficult on someone’s mental health.

That’s why I am an advocate of less than half of one’s college admissions applications going to schools where one is not likely to be accepted. As your numbers indicate, there are far more qualified applicants to these schools than will be accepted. The expectation going in is that one is going to be rejected, and them have a happy surprise if you got in. But no matter what a school’s admission rate, it’s going to sting if there’s a rejection. When more than half of the colleges you’ve applied to reject you, there’s going to be mental distress.

The Ivy League and similarly selective/rejective schools are often great colleges. There are other great colleges that have far higher acceptance rates. I think the problem is when one’s social milieu indicates that only an education at a Top X college is worthwhile, and everything else is a second rate (or worse) outcome. My gut says that it is the expectations that families, schools, social media, etc, put on some of our students that need to change. Because frankly, no matter how one cuts it, I don’t see how getting 8 rejections is going to not be mentally damaging.

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There is a very precise focus in the OP: why is the Ivy League, which we tell ourselves is nothing more than an athletic league, having all “its” schools agree on the same date to inform students on admissions?

That’s the issue in the OP.

Ostensibly, these are all separate universities. Why are they coordinating on their admissions announcement date?

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Perhaps we, as a society, need to stop putting so much weight into these colleges being “the best”. They aren’t the best. Just the hardest to get into. It has to do with a reputation that is in many cases a “brand”. And for some reason, kids think it’s the only way they will be a success. Not to mention the parents that view their kid’s awards and college acceptances as a validation of their parenting skills. They have low admission rates because of the number of people that apply. That has nothing to do with their process.

I understand your emotions surrounding this, but this isn’t about the schools. It’s about how we’ve raised our kids. How many activities do kids do solely to get into these universities only to find out they were “worthless”? How much of their teens years were wasted curating a resume rather than engaging in activities that would have been personally meaningful in developing who they really are and what their true passions are? It’s not the universities fault. It’s the BS we’ve fed our kids about how to be successful.

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Yes I agree that the process should be changed.

So the schools are entirely blame-free? And they haven’t done anything to contribute to this irrationally exuberant feeding frenzy of college admissions?

The schools share greatly in the blame. There is absolutely NO reason for 8 independent universities to coordinate on admissions announcement dates. That’s the focus of the OP. And that is not an issue for the students/parents.

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I don’t blame the schools for being prestigious or sought after. I blame the hype that some people have put on the schools. I met someone who transferred from U of Illinois law school to Harvard law school. Was it harder, I asked? No, they said. I would discourage students from the idea of a “dream school” and encourage them to get excited about other excellent options.

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Who created or fostered the conditions for the hype? The kids?

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I think probably parents and peer pressure.

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I think “abusive” is an awfully over-the-top term here, but I agree that it’s a difficult day for those who do not get in. OP, are you objecting to the coordinated release of admission decisions, or to some other aspect of the process? How would you changes things specifically? I’m asking out of genuine curiosity.

Two of my kids applied to multiple Ivies; one received an acceptance and the other did not. The one who didn’t get in did cry briefly, though I think the reaction was due primarily to being rejected by her first choice rather than to receiving multiple simultaneous rejections. I don’t think that receiving the same rejections spread out over time would have been any better (it would have been a drip-drip-drip of disappointment), and in any event my kid’s sadness quickly dissipated and she turned her attention to the schools that had accepted her.

I think that, as others have said, the problem lies less in “Ivy Day” but in the absurd public perception that Yale and Brown and Cornell are magical places that are indisputably superior in every way to their non-Ivy brethren, and that anyone who doesn’t attend one is doomed to a miserable life of failure. Although I’m a proud Princeton grad, I made sure to convey to my kids that they shouldn’t worship the Ivy “brand”, and of their combined 24 applications, only 4 were to Ivies.

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And quite surely the schools. I am not denying the other issues raised by you and others, but the schools have accountability.

I have yet to hear any cogent reasons why there is even such a thing as “Ivy Day” admissions announcements for 8 independent universities. This is the ESSENCE of hyping. That is specifically what I understand the OP to be about.

And, again, that is not on the students or parents.

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Some ways to change things would be:

  1. Removing ED. So many reasons that this is a positive for the colleges and a negative for the kids.
  2. Institute basic metrics to apply: You need to have x and y to be considered.
  3. Expand the number of spots at top schools. If this were a business they would hire more people and expand. Instead, the number of slots has only increased very little when compared to the population and the number of kids going to college.
  4. Stop holding up the same names as the ticket into SCOTUS, top jobs, the media, government, etc. IF kids had an equal shot at career prospects and grad schools from all colleges then you might not see as much of a free for all.

The cost of college is another major factor. Since it’s so darn expensive, kids and parents want to attend the “best” schools ( whatever that means). Who wants to pay the same price for a Ferrari and a Volkswagen? That is why having the same sticker price for schools doesn’t make any sense. And no one can really tell who is getting a better deal.

The process is just so broken. From ED, to holistic admissions to announcing everything on the same day. It’s just a circus.

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I am focused on why 8 independent universities feel the need to have “Ivy Day”, a single day in which all 8 announce their RDs. There are many other issues, but the OP is, from what I gather, quite precise in focusing on the “coordinated” aspect of Ivy Day.

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It is the students and their parents creating this issue. Students and their parents are creating this “problem” and they are the ones who can “fix it” (to the extent it needs fixing at all). The mentality that the only way to “success” (how ever that is defined) is thru an Ivy education is a fallacy that needs to be addressed and dismissed.

Why apply to all 8 ivies? It’s a choice to shotgun. Why apply to any? It’s a choice to apply to these schools in the first place. More kids are applying but it’s somehow the fault of the schools? Would the rejections be more palatable if they were spaced out every few days so an entire month is a parade of rejections?

Instead of blaming the schools, parents and students need to take a good hard look at their expectations and reality. And the reality that should be expected is that if you apply to an Ivy you’re going to get rejected. Yes, that doesn’t apply to every single applicant but it applies to the overwhelming majority, so unless you have a hook that’s a lock at one of these schools, you should expect the thin envelope.

The same mentality that keeps the lottery a booming business, keeps the Ivy admissions where they are today. You can’t win if you don’t play but you shouldn’t expect to win. If you do win there’s a huge amount of luck involved.

I haven’t heard a reason why there shouldn’t be an Ivy day. Personally I’d rather get all the bad news over at once. And again, the number of decisions received is in the absolute control of the student.

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I agree that they don’t need to announce their decisions on the same day (indeed, they release ED/EA decisions one different days, though in the same week). But I don’t think spreading out the announcements would make a meaningful difference to the Ivy-obsessed kids and families. At one point one of my kids received disappointing admission decisions (rejection or waitlist) three or four days in a row, and that just made for a disappointing week rather than a disappointing day.

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I’m not sure why any student, no matter how accomplished, would apply to all 8 Ivies. They are very different schools (just compare Brown’s open curriculum to the core at Columbia, for example) so it is hard to imagine that kids who apply to all of them are doing it for any other reason than prestige. They are great schools, no doubt, but chances of admission are really, really small. Every single applicant (unless they are hooked in some way - recruited athlete, URM, academic prize winner etc) should expect rejection, but judging from the commentary on CC most don’t. As to the one day announcement, I’m not sure spreading out the rejections over the course of a week or two would make it feel any better. The idea that any child would self-harm because of Ivy rejections is so incredibly sad. No child should derive their sense of self worth from what colleges accept them.

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You’re not sure why they’d apply??

My guess is they see these three letters - I - V - Y - and that’s something they can brag about for the rest of their lives. Or perhaps parental pressure.

There really can’t be any other reason since as you note they are different schools.

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