<p>Remember folks, I liked the old bowl game system too!:)</p>
<p>I think some of the reasoning behind our district working with hs families was finanical too. State student money counts only for kids you are actively educating. So it may be rather than a bunch of swell guys wanting to keep hs kids on task, a way to capture the thousands per student payment for the district. So including them in the hunt for val could "technically" make them students and the district would recieve funds.</p>
<p>However, the program does help alot of hs kids graduate. Before the program, most HS didn't finish HSchool. The program gave an advisor to parents so they could have a contact with education questions or requirements for graduation. I think it was a good compromise for those families who have strong objections to public school, but lack funds for private schools. They could teach their kids along their values system and still (with help) keep the kid ontrack with their peers. </p>
<p>Only about 2/3rds of HS seniors graduate, so I can't bash a district for trying anything to push that number up. HS support, Alternative school, tech school and what ever.</p>
<p>SBDAD:</p>
<p>I'm equally put off by having an academic award go to "best effort" instead of clear mastery and excellence, which, particularly in a math class would be determined objectively by the highest grade. Even in math class, I guess, it's a subjective award if the teacher decides to choose among the A students rather than the top one to pick the "best in class" for an award.</p>
<p>It's the kind of thing you describe that makes academic awards at some schools, some years look more like "teachers' pets" awards and I think that's unfortunate. It can be annoying also because some people will make a point that the kids who try hard and bring their grade up should be recognized and not the top student in the subject because they think the top students always get all the recognition, when, in fact, they often don't. Not in the yearbook, not in the academic awards determined by teachers, not in the schoolwide assemblies.</p>
<p>And I'm with advantagious on the subject of home-schooled kids showing up to take the val award on graduation day. They used a different curriculum, no? Didn't have to deal with the quirks and whims of different teachers and be dinged on "participation" points in regular-school classes. I guess if the school is handing out multiple val-sal awards anyway, what difference does it make....but it is definitely one of those things that can make you cynical at a young age.</p>
<p>I'll wager that there won't be any cheering during this school's graduation ceremony next year....</p>
<p>
[quote]
GALESBURG, Ill. (AP) -- Caisha Gayles graduated with honors last month, but she is still waiting for her diploma. The reason: the whoops of joy from the audience as she crossed the stage.</p>
<p>Gayles was one of five students denied diplomas from the lone public high school in Galesburg after enthusiastic friends or family members cheered for them during commencement.</p>
<p>About a month before the May 27 ceremony, Galesburg High students and their parents had to sign a contract promising to act in dignified way. Violators were warned they could be denied their diplomas and barred from the after-graduation party.
[/quote]
</p>
<p><a href="http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GRADUATION_DECORUM?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US%5B/url%5D">http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GRADUATION_DECORUM?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US</a></p>
<p>"It's the kind of thing you describe that makes academic awards at some schools"</p>
<p>"people will make a point that the kids who try hard and bring their grade up should be recognized"</p>
<p>Our HS does have some smaller awards meetings for parents and students who are trying. Why? we're doing everything possible to get kids to want to come to school and finish with a HS degree.</p>
<p>One third to one quarter of kids enrolled now in HS, won't finish. I'm all for efforts to find the hot button on those kids to get them across the line. If it's an award for the voc tec kid who goes a semester without missing class, when the year before he was gone 60% of the time.. hey why not? </p>
<p>If it helps him enjoy school to get up and learn.. cool. He can finish HS and get a job that will pay him something.</p>
<p>Before anybody starts jumping me for the liberal pov and warm and fuzzy guy that I am... Let me express my basic philosophy and you'll maybe understand better my POV.</p>
<p>I want our educational systems to produce TAX PAYERS, not TAX TAKERS. </p>
<p>Whatever efforts they produce to get one more kid to stick it out and finish, I support. If one third of our kids never finish school, the statistics point out they will probably need some sort of public assistance down the road (tax taking) while not producing tax revenues. I wonder if I can still be soft? ;)</p>
<p>"Violators were warned they could be denied their diplomas and barred from the after-"</p>
<p>Do they mean, get it later or never? That rule won't last long, I see court in somebody's horizon. </p>
<p>Not legally enforcable.</p>
<p>If I don't want your kid to get his dipolma, I yell real hard? </p>
<p>Somebody's going to get a few dollars and or an apology.</p>
<p>When my son graduated, they made a very clear announcement to hold applause and cheering until the end of the ceremony. Most people did, although we heard a few quick shout outs here and there from around the auditorium, but there was one group of about ten or so who screamed, had noise makers, clapped, etc for a dozen or so graduates. It was really a shame. Every time they let loose, the next graduate's name was inaudible. I'm sure they weren't related to every grad they cheered for, so I don't think taking away all those graduates' diplomas away would be fair either. Like one girl in the article said, she only had control over the people she gave tickets to. I would have preferred they asked that group of screamers at my son's graduation to leave. Of course, that would have caused yet another disruption.</p>
<p>Yeah, I agree with SBDad and Jazzymom about the senior awards thing, as well. I guess it just seems like almost all of these awards have more flaws than not. I ranted elsewhere about my senior awards night, but I'll give the short version here: when it's right, it's great. For example, the kid who won the Math Department Award absolutely was the right kid--he had taken every single high-level math course are school offered, and was one of the if not the top students in these classes as well. He also is the most helpful, down to earth kid who just naturally helped everyone. We were thrilled when he won. </p>
<p>But when it isn't right, when there isn't a clear winner, there's just hurt feelings, and it makes me question the point. I'll focus on English, since it is the one that annoyed me the most. There were several kids--yes, including myself--who were every bit as qualified as the next for that distinction. It came down to the girl who had this one teacher Sophmore year who ALWAYS gets his way. It's hard to sit in the audience and hear about how great a writer X is and how strong their work ethic is, with the implication that X is the only one with these qualities. (It's also annoying to hear about X's mission work in this setting...made it seem like I should have broken out a big ole cross and started talking about my dedication to bringing peace on Earth). Similar paragraphs could have been written about the History, Science, and Music awards. Not that these kids who won them DIDN'T basically deserve to win, or that I would have like to see a top 10 English students distinction, but the award seems hollow when it is so arbitrary. </p>
<p>The only reason I support Val/Sal is because public HS's like mine need to rank (IMO, of course) to keep kids like me competitive in admissions. Not even that much can be said of many of the other awards....</p>
<p>EDIT: Re: Screamers...there isn't much you can really do about the audience. However, my school HAS come up with an (enforcable) way to keep the students in line, and that is withholding diplomas. The threat works--the graduates are REALLY well-behaved--and I think that if the school did have to withhold the diploma until the stated consequences had occured (a talk with the Principal), they would probably be able to do so without being sued or anything.</p>
<p>ZG's award ceremony was the other night and the Val and Sal were named. Both are smart, poised, accomplished young women. Both took very light course loads including no APs and had not great SAT scores. One going to Quinnipiac and one going to TCNJ. Interestingly, the number 3 and 4 students are both boys. Neither particularly poised or accomplished outside of academics, but both had tough course loads, great SAT scores and one is going to an Ivy (can't remember which -- I don't know him) and the other is going to Notre Dame. I just found that interesting.</p>
<p>Obviously, I would defer to you, zoosermom, since you know the girls, but by objective measures it seems difficult for me to understand how smart the girls can be with their very light courseloads and not to great test scores and hard for me to justify a system that, no matter how wonderful they might be, named them as the Val/Sal over the boys ranked 3 and 4. </p>
<p>Please don't kill me for this post, which I am sure this sounds harsh and terrible, but...I don't get it.</p>
<p>The notion that everyone will or even can remain quiet through the reading of sometimes up to 1000 names, and that people who don't can deny certain kids their diplomas is, IMO, silly. You'd like some decorum, but you also have to be realistic.</p>
<p>Our high school is somewhat unusual--situated in a prosperous suburb, it also draws from a smaller neighboring suburb which is much less affluent, and includes, among the students it sends, a number of kids who are the first people in their families to graduate high school. In contrast to many in attendance, this was, to many of the families, a truly momentous occasion, to be celebrated with great joy. I wasn't upset--I was thrilled for the celebrants and how excited they were. The people calling names were sensitive, and refrained from calling out the next name until the cheering stopped, so nobody's name was missed. This only happened for about 20-25 kids, and it probably added 10 minutes to the ceremony, but so what?</p>
<p>Sounds to me like school administrators who take themselves and their "power" way too seriously.</p>
<p>"Please don't kill me for this post, which I am sure this sounds harsh and terrible, but...I don't get it."</p>
<p>THat's why I posted it. I'm not smart enough, myself, to get it either and was looking for insight. I said, "Huh" when I found out. The girls are smart and accomplished, but not super-geniuses by any means.</p>
<p>I would guess (and it's only a guess) that the school is trying to let all the students vie for Val rather than those who can/would take the hardest courses. Maybe a way to get more students involved in learning? I don't necessarily agree with it (one of the top 10 grads from my HS back in the stone age took typing, steno, home ec when the other nine were taking chem, physics, advanced algebra). I think difficulty of class should be considered.</p>
<p>This has been a small sore spot for me this year. Our D is graduating 3rd in her class and should be first. Our HS determines Val on weighted classes. However, there is a calculation involved that divides your total score by the number of classes. My D was the only one of the top three that took an elective all 4 years so it drops her GPA slightly below the top two. All three took the same number of AP classes and did equally well in their grades. Therefore she is penalized by actually filling her schedule up more than the other two. I've talked to the principal and she agrees with me but this is the way it's always been calculated and they are finally this year looking to change it beginning next year. Too late for my D but hopefully they can find a way to make it more fair.</p>
<p>SATs don't have anything to do with val or sal.
The reason a student with a light course load can get val over one with a harder load has to do with the weighting and grade policy.
For example, at our school, we only have Honors and AP. Big difference between the two, though. If you get a "plus" they add .33, if you get a "minus" they subtract .33; hence an A+ is a 4.33 and an A- is a 3.67.<br>
The difference between Honors and AP is .5, so chances are, you can do better gradewise by taking Honors English which is an easy A and a very doable A+ and come out better than if you take AP English, which you'll be LUCKY to get an A- out of.</p>
<p>The top 10 kids in our class all hover around 4.5, give or take .2.</p>
<p>About the yelling. Sometimes ya gotta understand. My D's graduating class included 67 native americans last year. Why would anyone yell about that? Well, the usual grad rate was about 8% for native americans up here. Usually less than 5 walk the isle. Alot of work, I mean alot of work has gone into these kids and that was a worthy cheer. In some cases they have the most education in their family. All are going on to college.. tuition will be picked up by the tribe... pretty cool. </p>
<p>Just returned from S college grad over the weekend. lots of cheering, signs and a few noise makers... oh well.</p>
<p>Just read in today's newspaper that three 20 year olds got arrested at a graduation ceremony in our area last Sat. They were there to cheer for the younger brother of one of them. The boys said they were expecting to get asked to leave but never thought they would be arrested. They were charged with suspicion of public disorderly conduct. </p>
<p>The boys said they knew cheering was prohibited but decided to do it anyway after dozons of others cheered. Many groups stood, cheered, then exited the buliding. When the graduate went up to the platform the three boys stood, walked to the front of their section and yelled "Justin, you're my boy". They then tried to leave the arena but the police detained them. </p>
<p>The boys say they were unfairly targeted as they had seen whole families cheering their children with no consequence..</p>