<p>1st son took a year of Italian in college and found it very difficult. He had three years of high school Spanish under his belt but found Italian more difficult and very different from Spanish. </p>
<p>2nd son decided that he wants to take German in the fall (also has 3 years of high school Spanish under his belt which he completed by the end of 10th grade). He narrowed down his choices between German and Japanese. After realizing that he would also have to learn a new written language as well as spoken language with Japanese, he picked German. To be honest, I think he chose it because he likes the fact that you can pay the nicest compliment to someone in German but still sound like you're p..sed off! LOL</p>
<p>Nysmile, I think that is funny about why your second son chose German. Confession, I understand German (if people speak slowly) and struggle to speak enough German to get by (I don't know how any grammer, really can't read or write it, though I have tried to read German for fun and could pick it up easily). The key to my learning it is that it was the first language I learned (spoken to me until I turned 3).</p>
<p>S. took Spanish throughout high school. Did well enough, but it was always his least favorite class.
He is majoring in IR at Tufts, which carries an 8-semester language requirement. I thought continuing Spanish would be the sensible (and easier) choice, but he was sick of it by then and chose Arabic instead. It's a lot of work but he's enjoying it and doing well. Maybe not his hardest class, but as posters above have noted, one where you MUST keep up with the lessons or you'll fall behind.<br>
Choosing a language that you have an interest in, whatever the reason, definitely helps.</p>
<p>northeastmom--I'm sure he'll find German a challenge but I'm hoping the fact that he willingly chose it himself and has the present desire to learn it will be enough to get him through the required year of foreign language. Here's the story behind the "sounds like you're p.ssed off even when you're giving someone a compliment." He has played and competed in sports since he was 5 years old. There's one team that he's played against in high school for years and it was comprised mainly of Asians who would only speak their native language to each other on the field (soccer team). Whenever my s's team would score or steal the ball away, this particular team would "yell" at them in some sort of Asian language (we think it was Chinese). Anyway, he got a little annoyed that the refs never reprimanded this team. On the other hand, if S's team ever said anything negative to the opposing team in English they would get yellow carded or penalized for it. Do you remember when the Italian player headbutted the German player during the World Cup? That incident gave my son an idea. He thought it would be funny to learn a few German words via the internet and when this particular team yelled in Chinese, he would attempt to yell in German. He loved that it sounded so angry and competitive.</p>
<p>^Oh, so there is a whole story behind the German. </p>
<p>lspf, I think that my son is sick of French. This is probably because he has struggled with it too long, and just falls further behind. Somehow he is muddling through with a lot of help from his teacher. He's not alone. He has the company of at least 3 other boys who also just don't improve much. I know he wants to start with any language other than French. The trick is which one. </p>
<p>Ken, thanks for that chart. I really don't know how it would apply to a student who is language challenged. I wonder if they are all equally challenging for a kid with little aptitude for foreign language.</p>
<p>I've taken Spanish, Italian, and Latin. Latin could be good if your son has an ordered, logical mind, and has been struggling with the oral and aural aspects of another language. Latin grammar is usually seen as more difficult than, say, Spanish grammar, but it's all very ordered. When you're learning Latin, you're given charts of grammar rules. You can see exactly what you're talking about. In spoken languages, particularly at the high school level, grammar is never so clearly presented. That could be a plus. The stories and vocab are also much cooler in Latin because you're not aiming to have everyday conversations in the language. </p>
<p>Northeastmom, Spanish is one of the easiest languages to learn for English-speakers, and I think the accent tends to be easier to learn than the French accent. My sister studied French in high school and really didn't like it and was convinced she was horrible at languages. She took Spanish in college, and though she didn't excel, she did fine. She did two quarters at school and one quarter in a language immersion program abroad. My personal feelings are that it would be hard for someone who only knows English and presumably has trouble with languages to learn a language abroad as opposed to in classes. By stretching out the time it takes to learn the language, there's more time to memorize vocab, get comfortable with pronunciation, and get extra practice on the grammar. On the other hand, if the college requirement is just passing a certain level, immersion is the fastest way to get it over with. I really like Italian, but I do think Spanish is easier than Italian. You should also keep in mind that he'll do best at a language he has an interest in, of course. I know of a few people who really, really couldn't pass a language or didn't want to take one and fulfilled the language requirement with sign language. At least at my college, I've never heard complaints that it's very difficult. There's a big cultural emphasis as well.</p>
<p>One of the most important factors in student success in learning a language is motivation. As Mathmom said, he probably knows more French that he thinks. What didn't he like about French? If it was the teacher, that teacher won't be at college. If it was grammar, he's going to encounter grammar in any language, and he'd probably be better off sticking to French which he has some familiarity with. If it was speaking in class that bothered him (and the requirement is not a modern language), Latin might be good. If there's a particular country (Italy, Argentina...), that might be good motivation to study a language. </p>
<p>I always recommended that students who were doubtful about being able to handle a language they didn't think they learned very well is to check out the textbook in the college bookstore. If the information in the first few chapters looks familiar to him, he will feel more at ease. </p>
<p>Finding a friend or group of friends in class to study with may be helpful, too.</p>
<p>I just want to dispel the notion that learning Spanish or French or Italian or another language is "easy." It takes work to learn a language, and like any subject, some students have a particular affinity for languages. Some people have more difficulty. I liken it to learning a musical instrument. Some people have an "ear" and can pick up the instrument and seem born to play it. Others will have to work at it more and practice hard and study and will still become competent. But the two experiences will be different.</p>
<p>In terms of the difficulty level of Spanish and Italian, I used my Spanish in Italy and got along pretty well. They are similar. The accent is a bit different. In terms of learning a language, it is not easy unless the Mother Tongue Center of your brain is still open. If it is closed, which it does by ages 9-11, unless things happen to keep it open, you can become proficient, but will never be truly fluent, as your brain will not allow you to accept any language as a mother language, other than your own. This explains those people who live overseas, learn some phrases, and not long after they return they can barely remember them. A friend of mine was just like that. The vocabulary is key. If your S accepts these words as synonyms for English words, and not as "foreign" then he should do well with the requirements.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If it is closed, which it does by ages 9-11, unless things happen to keep it open, you can become proficient, but will never be truly fluent, as your brain will not allow you to accept any language as a mother language, other than your own. This explains those people who live overseas, learn some phrases, and not long after they return they can barely remember them.
[/quote]
What about people who learn a new language as an adult and re-locate there for life?
[quote]
If your S accepts these words as synonyms for English words, and not as "foreign" then he should do well with the requirements.
[/quote]
I actually think that this is what often hurts and slows people when learning a language. If you constantly think of the language in terms of English, you cannot become comfortable with it. In all of my language classes teachers have emphasized understanding the language by itself and not thinking of it in terms of English (i.e. translating what you want to say in, say, German from English first).</p>
<p>My D is finishing up her third year of German at the end of 10th grade. It is a pretty tough course and is conducted almost entirely in German. She struggles to get an A, mostly because she loses points on everything due to wrong genders, adjective endings or forgetting the commas. And she really does put in more time on this than any other subject. She now feels that she is terrible at languages. </p>
<p>Is there any language that has no word genders or doesn't have a bazillion cases with different verb and adjective endings? I remember thinking that French was even harder than German, but that was a long time ago. Would it even pay for her to begin a different language for her last two years of high school?</p>
<p>The thing with German is that there are a lot of patterns in the genders, endings, and conjugations (for example, nouns that are the Stamm of a verb plus a -t on the end are usually feminine). I think it's much more efficient to know the general patterns and rules and then to memorize the exceptions. I'm a German major currently studying in Munich, and the reality is that every American here still makes little gender or grammar mistakes at times.</p>
<p>In second language acquisition terms, I've always heard that a native speaker grew up speaking the language, and a non-native speaker learned the language later in life (adolescence or later). Even if you end up speaking the second language better than the first language (which may be the case in adults who move to another country as teenagers), you're still considered to be a non-native speaker.</p>
<p>I may have missed this here as I haven't read every single word (bad me) but has anyone suggested getting your son screened for dyslexia/language-based learning issues? Classroom-based foreign language study has a way of flushing these issues out for a lot of kids. They struggle, and struggle, and struggle. They can't figure out why they don't "get" it. Well, they can get it, but it will always be alot harder for them. And, once identified, they can learn specific techniques that will help them master this kind of material.</p>
<p>Language learning, as others have mentioned, is highly dependent on motivation. Think of all the international stars who are working in Hollywood and have trained with accent coaches to sound just like us gringos. It really can be done if you want to and are able to devote enough time to it (and have the money for the accent coaches).</p>
<p>I'd say, let your son pick whatever language it is he'd like to learn - dead or alive, spoken or signed - whatever his college and/or department accepts.</p>
<p>My experience was that it was "easier" to take an entirely new language (in my case, Latin and classical Greek) than it was to take the next level of French, even after four years of high school French. In the Latin and Greek classes, at least everybody was a beginner. In the French class, I discovered that I was already behind the other students in the class, and that was very tough.</p>
<p>Hmmm, That is interesting. I just want him to pick whatever will be the easiest to learn. I don't think he is dying to exactly sign up for any languages, LOL.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is there any language that has no word genders or doesn't have a bazillion cases with different verb and adjective endings?
[/quote]
There are no languages that don't have something annoying in my experience. If it's not a million verb endings, or two or three genders, or the subjunctive, then it's a million ways to make a plural. </p>
<p>My recommendation for someone who has truly tried to learn a language and failed is to get yourself tested at the college. My sister-in-law finally got out of the language requirement at Harvard that way. (But she failed German and French first.) I do think anyone can learn a language. I had a terrible time with French in high school, but was cured by a year in France. And I would definitely put myself on the "not good at languages end of the scale" despite having learned to speak two languages pretty fluently. If money weren't an issue, I'd recommend that someone with a bad language experience spend some time in an immersion program *before *studying a language at college. I did pretty well in first year German (a B), but a lot better in second year German after spending a month in Germany the summer after my freshman year.</p>
<p>"I don't think he is dying to exactly sign up for any languages, LOL."</p>
<p>In which case the suggestion is that he pick the language that seems least hateful to him! What's wrong with Italian? I teach English at Berlitz, and at a staff party last week we heard a report from one of the students who is learning Italian about his recent trip to Rome. Teenage boy version summary: great food, hot chicks.</p>
<p>happymom, Italian is fine. I am just trying to discover which language is the easiest to learn. Oh, and agree with the great food, but can't comment on chicks, LOL. Also sent a PM to you.</p>
<p>Hunt, if you are asking me, my son is in high school. I am just thinking about which FL to pick for college. I have heard that ASL can be just as difficult to learn as other foreign languages.</p>