The full pay or wait list phone call

I guess there is a silver lining there. Just wish it hadn’t happened with this particular school. It was/is my DS’s preferred choice, and a place where we could all see DS happy and thriving.

I think the point of the heads up in the event the family can not attend without FA is to just give the family time to prepare and allow them some say in how the process unfolds at home and not to necessarily sugar coat or cover up the family’s financial situation. BS financial aid info is not always sent with the acceptance email - it often follows via snail mail a few days later, and many of the kids are just 13 after all. Colleges have no qualms about sending the “yes but no” emails.

@chemmchimney I don’t believe for a second that schools that hold off their offers of admissions do so for the benefit of the families and kids. They want their spots to be fully utilized and don’t want to waste them on those that couldn’t come up a way to find the money, which would only hold an open spot that could be given to the next potential full paying candidate in line. Note that I am not being intentionally harsh on the school, but if there’s an EFC per the school designated process, just where do they expect the family to get the money?

@panpacific That is true - schools want to fill their spots. But I didn’t mean to suggest that spots are held for anyone. My daughter’s choices were acceptance as a full pay or go on the wait list and hope that FA materializes once the school sees which accepted students with FA offers are actually attending. No spots were being held for anyone. In fact, the school stated they had 6x more kids who could potentially be admitted waiting for FA than they had FA to hand out, so obviously the chances of getting chosen off the list AND having FA become available were slim. Under this scenario, there are some parents who would actually prefer their child receive an outright rejection so they can move on, but no spots are held in any case.

Also I think most of the family’s in this situation have a small or non-existent EFC, otherwise these types of calls really don’t make sense and they likely do not occur if the child’s EFC is equal to a substantial portion of tutition.

And there is not actually a single line of accepted students. Once FP students are accepted, that’s it - letter goes out. But the accepted students who need FA go through a 2nd screening to decide who gets what $$ (unless perhaps if the school is need blind). Some schools have a separate wait list for kids waiting for FA and some schools have a single wait list for everybody, and wait lists are not ranked. It is just a pool of potential admits. When the star swimmer turns the school down, they want to be able to pluck another swimmer off the list so the kids are not in any particular order and any candidate can be accepted at any time.

IMO, all it takes is a thoughtful letter of admissions. To me, don’t call just to ask me to take money out of my 401k or borrow it from my imaginary uncle! Don’t I know that would “work”? :wink:

Wow, this is disheartening. They should really separate the FA part from acceptance. Maybe determine FA in the fall, and then let the student “go shopping” with it in hand, and not apply where the FA is not enough. IDK, it just seems kinda rough.

I hope things work out well for you!

“IMO, all it takes is a thoughtful letter of admissions. To me, don’t call just to ask me to take money out of my 401k or borrow it from my imaginary uncle! Don’t I know that would “work”?”

I agree with you @panpacific in theory but the reality is different. we have seen even on this board in past years where families applied for FA and then “found” the money when needed, from relatives or what not. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of these schools started making these kinds of phone calls because in the past, when waitlisting some kids for aid, some families did come forward with the $$$. (plus, yes, it does help their yield rate rather than sending out an acceptance that won’t work)

I do believe these calls go only to those who need very little FA or who don’t really understand their own finances the way FA offices do. In our case, we thought we needed partial FA, but our EFC came back saying we could afford to send TWO kids to BS (we’re still laughing painfully at that) so, obviously, the FA office crossed us off the FA list. When we saw the EFC number, we were sure we’d entered something incorrectly on the forms and spent several days making calls and checking our sock drawers to be sure we didn’t have a fortune stored in the toe of some overlooked sock. We are big savers and knew we’d have to stopped contributing to the 529, but the FA offices were kind enough to explain that if we stopped all retirement contributions cold turkey, we should be able to afford BS. We are older parents and didn’t think we be expected to stop 401K contributions and live paycheck to paycheck, but that’s what it took. We didn’t starve, but we did join the rice OR beans group for a while. (They were WAY off base about being able to send two kids to BS. I still think something was wrong with the forms we submitted.)

I agree with you @doschicos. I think it’s legitimate to apply for FA hoping to avoid drastic measures like borrowing, taking from your 401K, or even downsizing your home. Having said that, some families are willing to go to those lengths if forced, while others still plan on those things from the outset. It’s such an imperfect system and affordability can be and feel subjective. Even after going through this process at my DD’s current school and reading/asking many questions, I’m frustrated by how opaque the FA system seems. I’m really surprised to hear schools calling families ahead of M10, although I understand what’s at stake. Maybe there should be a question on the FA application that comes right out and asks, “Would you consider forgoing FA if it was the difference between an acceptance or a rejection?”

Yes, @bookwormsmom, I think that is the perfect solution, although there is a bit of a difference between answering that question when you feel it would be impossible (or why would you be applying for FA?) and when you’re under M10 pressure. We certainly would have checked “no” without the benefit of the FA conversation and our son would have come up empty-handed.

I will also add that, in our case, we would not consider loans and that was part of the solution offered, so the resulting four years were harder on us than the FA office thought they needed to be.

I guess the question really is subjective based on the above responses. What constitutes being able to afford? As mentioned previously BS is a luxury item. Every family has to decide what they are willing or not willing to do to make it happen if given the opportunity. I don’t mean to be insensitive, but there are families who truly do not have the money if need is not met and it’s not a question of stopping contributing to a 401k, taking out loans (or choosing not to), foregoing vacations, eating out, or any number of other items that would need to be stopped to “afford” BS. While I certainly appreciate that for families who wanted partial or some help and instead being asked to FP, it is painful and difficult as @ChoatieMom has noted above. I also understand that if a family has chosen to be financially frugal that decision may come back to bite them when BS looks at the finances and decides if a family wants to send their child to BS, then hard decisions will need to be made. The option always rests with the family as to whether or not to make those decisions and if a family can make those decisions and be a FP family, I cannot fault the schools. As we all know, there is a limited pool for FA. I only hope (maybe too naively) that the schools are instead offering FA to families, for whom there is truly not the “cutting out or foregoing” option, the monies to attend BS. It’s a tough process, no doubt – undoubtedly imperfect.

@ChoatieMom You just lost some of sympathy.:slight_smile: If PFS said you could afford to send two kids to BS, you absolutely didn’t have a case to receive FA in Choate!

I am not looking for sympathy, and I never claimed poverty, but the PFS was way off. It was a hardship to send one. It took more than just stopping savings; it drained all of our cash flow. We did not have vacations, or cable, or fancy cars, or memberships anywhere to squeeze out as we never had those to begin with. But Choate absolutely did the right thing in helping us to understand what we could do to swing it (even if loans were not something we would consider) and spared their FA for families who weren’t on the cusp as we were. @panpacific, you are correct, we did not have a case, but we could not see that initially. Both of the schools that called helped us see our situation for what it was. We had a very, very difficult choice to make. It was a dreadful time but, obviously, we chose to go ahead. I often wonder if our son’s choice of a service academy wasn’t somehow influenced by the financial sacrifice we made to send him to BS. I certainly hope it wasn’t. :frowning:

@ChoatieMom – What do you think was the biggest factor of your son getting into West Point? My friend’s child got in from Maine and they thought it was Boys State and Downhill skiing that set him apart.

@laenen, we were not part of his service academy application process, so I have no clue. And, like BS, I wasn’t at the admissions table, so anything I would post here would only be a guess. You just never know. From my recent posts, you can tell I’m not one for trying to read tea leaves or guessing outcomes. He applied. He received an appointment. He’s happy. That’s all that matters to us.

@ChoatieMom It certainly sounds like an odd EFC report you got then. It’s hard to imagine that you had to make so much sacrifice to make BS happen for you son when PFS said you could pay for another son! My impression is that they mostly consider your current income while the FA office would consider “individual circumstances” such as debt. You must’ve had a very unusual financial situation.

@panpacific. We have heard story after story from friends who received no aid and some aid. We thought for sure we would qualify for something but according to the calculator …nothing. We have discussed with a couple schools. It’s pretty rigid. They expect you to mortgage your house, use up your savings etc. the crazy thing is that we all have college to think of. Oh well if one goes into colossal debt over boarding school maybe it will help with financial aid for college.

Every family’s financial situation is so unique that I think it’s impossible (or at the very least unwise) for third parties to cast judgement on what are “fair” or “unfair” assessments of EFC/FA Awards by any school.