The Future Winner Among State Us is…U North Carolina?

College Search & Selection
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Nice comparison. Could you throw Berkeley and UCLA into the mix? I’m curious to see how their financial resources compare after seeing this thread:</p>

<p>[Elimination</a> of Cal Grants](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/724254-elimination-cal-grants.html]Elimination”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/724254-elimination-cal-grants.html)</p>

<p>I noticed that several posters are clinging to the fig leaf of USNWR rankings. Award and fellowship production was ignored…what about graduation rates?</p>

<p>Four Year
UVA 85.0%
Brown 83.3%
UNC 75.2%
Michigan 70%
Berkeley 63.8%
UCLA 59.3%</p>

<p>Six Year
UVA 93.0%
Berkeley 89.6%
UCLA 89.4%
UNC 88.2%
Michigan 87.8%</p>

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<p>If I take 6 years to graduate, it doesn’t mean I went to school or paid for the school for 6 years.</p>

<p>IBclass06, do you go to Brown?</p>

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There are plenty of private schools that are Michigan’s peers including USC, Emory and Boston College. I fully agree that UMich compares very favorably to these schools. However, if we were to call Duke a peer of Michigan, then we must accept that Duke is a peer of Harvard and Michigan is a peer of Florida. Are you ready to buy into the idea that all of the top 100 USNews schools are essentially “peers”?</p>

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<p>dstark- That’s not really relevant. I threw Brown into the list for comparative purposes. UVA has a four year graduation rate roughly comparable to some of the Ivies.</p>

<p>Some people would point out the relatively high percentage of Pell Grant students at Berkeley, hence its low four year graduation rate. I’m surprised at this. After all, clearly Berkeley students are academically capable of graduating in four years (see the SAT statistics that people have been waving around). Many of these students are dropping out for a term or two to earn money for school…and doesn’t that reflect on the UC financial system?</p>

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<p>IB,
I agree with your thoughts on California. While North Carolina has its own problems, I think that California’s are much more severe. The budget cuts could imperil the relative position of the UCs. Maybe ucb or others can comment more in depth on this. </p>

<p>In answer to your request above, here is how this universe of publics compare. </p>

<p>USNWR Faculty Resources Rank in 2009</p>

<p>31st, U North Carolina (was 31st in 2008)
63rd, U Virginia (declined from 57th in 2008)
44th, UC Berkeley (declined from 40th in 2008)
26th, UCLA (was 26th in 2008)
35th, U Michigan (declined from 29th in 2008)</p>

<p>USNWR Financial Resources Rank in 2009</p>

<p>50th, U North Carolina (was 50th in 2008)
35th, U Virginia (was 36th in 2008)
33rd, UC Berkeley (improved from 38th in 2008)
42nd, UCLA (was 42nd in 2008)
72nd, U Michigan (declined from 69th in 2008)</p>

<p>Cost of Attendance for OOS students, % OOS</p>

<p>$29,629, 18% U North Carolina
$37,202, 28% U Virginia
$41,222, 4% UCLA
$42,752, 10% UC Berkeley
$43,009, 32% U Michigan</p>

<p>Avg FA Package for OOS student, % of COA for OOS student</p>

<p>$18,568 , 63% , U North Carolina OOS
$21,935 , 59% , U Virginia OOS
$21,607 , 52% , UCLA OOS
$21,868 , 51% , UC Berkeley OOS
$20,971 , 49% , U Michigan OOS</p>

<p>% of need met for lower-income OOS students</p>

<p>100%, U North Carolina OOS
100%, U Virginia OOS
85%, UC Berkeley OOS
80%, UCLA OOS
62%, U Michigan OOS</p>

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<p>IBClass: 4 year graduation rate is also closely linked to income. UVa has few poor kids (Pell Grantees), but the UCs purposely admit them to each campus.</p>

<p>btw: since Cal Grants are a statewide program, I’m not sure if they would be reported on a individual college’s CDS…</p>

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<p>IBclass06, I was just wondering since Brown was highlighted.</p>

<p>Great school.</p>

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<p>"Don’t you understand that MOST STUDENTS don’t care about the quality of academic programs? Superstar faculty members do nothing for me and most of my peers. I would rather have a knowledgeable PhD student who is keen on teaching the material than a Nobel Laureate. Frankly, it’s an embarassment that these esteemed scholars are even teaching undergraduate classes. "</p>

<p>That has to be the most ridiculous post of the year. A true embarassment------------- to the poster.</p>

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<p>hawkette- Thanks for the info.</p>

<p>bluebayou- I predicted that response. See my reference to Pell Grants up above.</p>

<p>barrons- I agree with you. :p</p>

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<p>sorry, IB, I didn’t read thoroughly. But, I disagree:</p>

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</p>

<p>Actually, no. There are students in the bottom % of the class that clearly do not belong in such a pressure-cooker of a Uni. They either receive big bonus points for being low income, and/or bonus points for a life challenge (under comprehensive review). While it may be a good thing societally (to give these kids a chance), many of them are ill-equipped to compete at the next level when a HUGE portion of the Frosh matriculate with a bunch of AP’s under the belts. Secondly, I don’t think its that kids drop out for a quarter or two to work, but UC finaid is so poor (unlike AccessUVa) that such that kids need to take a bare minimum load and work 20+ hours per week (if not more). At a minimum load, a student might graduate in five years. But, add in extra time to repeat a failed class or two (Cal gives out lotsa D’s and F’s), and voila, even for an arduous student, six years is a possibility. (Of course, UCs are extremely generous with AP credit, so it’s easy to graduate in 4 years for the well-prepared.)</p>

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<p>Absolutely! Advising is poor. Finaid is poor. Floundering for a couple of years is easy…</p>

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<p>deleting double post…</p>

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<p>Berkeley is a sink or swim environment. That has always been its nature and IMHO, the model has benefits in that it better preps kids for real life. </p>

<p>Ironically, potential elimination of Cal Grants may increase UC rankings according to the USNWR formula.</p>

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<p>UCBChem: Yeah I understand your point about eliminating Cal Grants, but I don’t think it is practical. Since 33% of UC students receive Cal Grants, the University would literally be out of Frosh…</p>

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<p>This is interesting data, which I don’t recall seeing posted before. What’s the source, and what the cutoff for “lower-income?” Pell-eligible?</p>

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<p>"Since 33% of UC students receive Cal Grants, the University would literally be out of Frosh… "</p>

<p>Nah… there are over 40,000 applicants.
The school would end up with a wealthier student body.
Higher SAT scores. Higher grad rates. Maybe better alumni giving rates.</p>

<p>The school will accept more students like my daughter. :slight_smile:
UCBChem… is right.</p>

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<p>barrons,
This is the most ridiculous post of the year, and A true embarassment------------- to the poster:</p>

<p>“At CMU, Michigan and Berkeley, there might be 400 engineers competing for 20 or so job openings at the major companies while at Duke, companies like Cisco and Northrop Grumann basically have to beg students to choose them over the top investment banks and management consulting firms.”</p>

<p>Note to self. Have to remember this one when I go out for a drink with my friends in cisco; good for a barrel of laughs.</p>

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<p>I understand the pluses in academic quality. </p>

<p>But the UCs don’t have wait lists; thus, they’d have to go back and re-review all the apps and figure out why they were rejected. And accept them the next batch and GUESS who would matriculate. And then find finanical aid for them. And hope that they would come by rejecting a college where they already placed a deposit. In the cases of Cal and UCLA, the vast majority of rejects-accepts would come from the lower tier campuses (and some privates). Of course, that means that THOSE campuses would take students from the UCs on the next rung down. Merced and Riverside could be left with no students.</p>

<p>It would be a trickle down issue, but not fixable in time for August classes (at Cal).</p>

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<p>Ok You’re talking this year…</p>

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<p>GoBlue, </p>

<p>I like this quote too:
“You are out of your mind UCB. Why don’t you people besides Hawkette get it?”</p>

<p>:D</p>

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<p>Current Cisco CEO–Indiana University grad
Prior Cisco CEO–Wisconsin grad.</p>