The Future Winner Among State Us is…U North Carolina?

College Search & Selection
181

<p>If by “student resources per capita” the meaning was resources dedicated to undergraduates and what a student must spend to get access to these resources, there are many datapoints to support ringoffire’s statement. Here are a few:</p>

<p>USNWR Faculty Resources Rank among National Universities
50th, U North Carolina
72nd, U Michigan</p>

<p>USNWR Financial Resources Rank among National Universities
31st, U North Carolina
35th, U Michigan</p>

<p>Cost of Attendance for OOS students
$29,629, U North Carolina
$43,009, U Michigan</p>

<p>Availability of Financial Aid to OOS students:</p>

<p>100% of need is met at U North Carolina
62% of need is met at U Michigan</p>

182

<p>“The Michigan posse has close to zero appreciation for colleges beyond the city limits of Ann Arbor. They really need to get out more and actually see a lot of the other schools around the country and meet the people. Lots of terrific folks attend places like U Wisconsin, U Texas, etc and they’re pretty fine places as well.”</p>

<p>This is beyond a joke. Talk about turnspeak. It’s people like ring and hawkette that are naught to compare Michigan to their peers schools, not the other way around. Did you see the lists of whoe Michigan’s academic peers are on the previous page? Always a mention of comparing U-M with other high quality PUBLIC schools. Sorry, but there are plenty of private schools that are also Michigan’s peers. Once again check out that list! Duke is one of them by the way.</p>

183

<p>hoedown,
The next time that you see a recommendation to an OOS student to attend these other public universities, please send me the link. Maybe I’ve missed it… </p>

<p>As for your other comments, I agree that the opportunity is there for many schools with money to upgrade their faculty. I think that it is an even better opportunity for those schools to offer full 100% Financial Aid to students with need. And to attract top students, some schools might even recognize that it is a great time to offer generous amounts of merit aid for students who don’t qualify for financial aid.</p>

184

<p>One must acknowledge that tuition is shaped by the states’ approach to funding, not the quality, philosophy, arrogance, or financial health of the school.</p>

<p>UNC runs on the high-support, low-tuition model (which means less aid is needed and budgeted for).</p>

<p>U-M runs on the low-support, high-tuition model (which means more aid is needed and budgeted for).</p>

<p>This reflect a historical approach to funding set a long time ago. It works against a U-M when it comes to its large number of nonresidents (high tuition means high need, times many students…means U-M can’t meet non-resident need. It does fully meet resident need though). </p>

<p>NC ranks 5th in the country for per-capita support of higher ed. Michigan ranks 38th. It’s how the state chooses to do things. In NC, the public pays more to educate UNC students. In Michigan, the student pays more. These are just different approaches.</p>

185

<p>Hawkette, how are those financial resources numbers derived?</p>

186

<p>hoedown,
I concur. They are different approaches which generally have different consequences for prospective students. As you note, in one instance the student pays. In the other, the state pays. I would agree with you or anyone else that both payors have probably reached their breaking points and this will impact each school, though probably in different ways. My impression is that U North Carolina has a lot more flexibility to adapt to these challenging times, but as the article you quoted earlier states, this will not be a painless process.</p>

187

<p>Instead of me pointing you to it the next time, how about some instances where it has already happened?</p>

<p>Here’s one:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/708008-university-michigan-vs-university-texas.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/708008-university-michigan-vs-university-texas.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Alexandre, GoBlue81, and rjkofnovi all suggest Texas is an equally valid choice as U-M (or is even better given the finances)</p>

<p>Just one example. There are others–the Wisconsin-UM dilemma comes up quite a bit and I’m sure barrons can vouch for the fact that a lot of the people who are pro-UM have advised U-W as a perfectly defensible choice over Michigan.</p>

188

<p>UNC is going to move towards the Michigan model. It is going to get less aid from the state government. It is going to make up the money elsewhere. Just like Michigan.</p>

<p>Hawkette, how are those financial resources numbers derived?</p>

189

<p>hoedown,
That was an IS Texas high schooler. His second sentence was:</p>

<p>“I live in Texas.” </p>

<p>Students from states with high quality State Us (like U Michigan and U Texas) should need to see something pretty unique (merit aid? some program not available at their State U?) to get them to spend all of the extra money that another State U would cost them as an OOS student. Especially in this economy. I think we are going to see proof of that student behaviour when we see the IS yields for this current year of admissions. My strong guess is that, at even the elite publics, the IS yields increased and OOS yields decreased.</p>

190

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<p>hawkette, you have a lot of nerve to play the victim. Michigan students/alums/supporters have consistently recommended prospective/admitted students to choose other peer schools (private AND public) because we understand the high cost of tuition is not worth putting the student into enormous debt. Students should choose the best academic, financial, and social fit for their needs. Maybe if you browse other threads in this forum, you will witness our sincere gratitude and rational thinking. All we ask of you is to stop misrepresenting Michigan with negative misconceptions, distortions, and flawed claims.</p>

191

<p>rjko,
LOL. Well, at least you didn’t challenge my statement on what happens when one suggests that other schools, including some that are lower-ranked, are U Michigan’s peer:</p>

<p>“dare state that on CC and prepare to be tarred and feathered by the assassination squad from AA who can’t tolerate any opposing opinion or statistical comparison that might lump their beloved with “lesser” colleges.”</p>

<p>BTW, I have posted elsewhere that, in elite academic circles, U Michigan is highly regarded and ranks with many prestigious institutions. Here is one recent post that I made on tier rankings involving the PA scores that you regularly quote:</p>

<p>" By Peer Assessment score (most important for those seeking a career in academia)</p>

<p>Tier 1 (4.8-4.9): Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford
Tier 2 (4.5-4.7): UC Berkeley, Caltech, U Chicago, U Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Johns Hopkins
Tier 3: (4.1-4.4): Duke, U Michigan, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Brown, U Virginia, UCLA, Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, U North Carolina, U Wisconsin
Tier 4 (3.6-4.0): Rice, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Georgia Tech, U Illinois, U Texas, Emory, Notre Dame, USC, U Washington, NYU, UCSD, UC Davis, W&M, Penn State, Tufts, U Florida
Tier 5: (3.0-3.5): Wake Forest, Brandeis, Boston College, Rensselaer, UC Irvine, UC Santa Barbara, U Rochester, Case Western, Tulane, Lehigh
Tier 6 (<3.0): Yeshiva"</p>

<p>tenisghs,
I’m not the victim. I’m the pi</p>

192

<p>That’s what I call moving the goalpost.</p>

<p>You claimed that “the posse” has zero appreciation for schools outside of Ann Arbor (meaning other top publics, in context).</p>

<p>One ought to be able to successfully challenge that statement by showing you a post where “the posse” have supported any such school. That would have been simple.</p>

<p>But no, goalpost moves! We can only prove it’s untrue by showing you where they’ve said nice things about those schools compared to Michigan. Also not hard to do.</p>

<p>Hold up, goalpost moved again! You now say we haven’t proved it’s untrue until we can find posts where “the posse” tells student who’d be OOS at both public schools to attend the non-Michigan school. That’s going to take some searching, which is annoying, but I’m confident they’re findable.</p>

<p>It seems to me there is a mismatch between what you accused the posse of, and what you’ll accept as evidence that maybe you overstated things.</p>

193

<p>Hawkette, how are those financial resources numbers derived?</p>

194

<p>Hoedown,
Moved the goalposts??? Please refer to # 183:</p>

<p>“hoedown,
The next time that you see a recommendation to an OOS student to attend these other public universities, please send me the link. Maybe I’ve missed it…”</p>

<p>Maybe my meaning wasn’t clear, but I was talking about students who would be OOS for both colleges. I think that the IS vs OOS comparison is very heavily weighted in favor of the IS institution.</p>

195

<p>Dont bother hoedown. It’s a waste of time. I think hawkette has been exposed enough. I hope readers here on CC can see that she has an agenda and interpret her posts as seriously flawed in that respect. As I have stated many times, I would hate to see young impressionable minds come onto this site and mistake hawkette as any type of authority on college quality.</p>

196

<p>The Ohio State University</p>

197

<p>“The Ohio State University”.</p>

<p>lol</p>

<p>Yeah…I guess I’m going to have to wait for ring<em>of</em>fire.</p>

198

<p>Yes, it wasn’t clear to me that you meant a student who would be non-resident both places. </p>

<p>But I think that’s immaterial. </p>

<p>It ought to be enough that someone in the so-called posse says “These schools are so close in quality that it’s not worth the cost difference” or “both are fine schools” or “you really can’t go wrong either place” to disprove your surprising accusation.</p>

199

<p>Immaterial whether a student is IS or OOS? Who’s moving the goalposts now? Due to the residency, the difference in cost in the U Texas thread was over $100k. Heck, I think Harvard or Princeton might have a hard time winning that one, much less another State U.</p>

200

<p>No, Hawkette. Spare me.</p>

<p>It’s immaterial to disproving YOUR claim.</p>