<p>UT-Austin should be a fast riser as well. Great academic departments and as the state becomes more populous, admission standards will tighten. </p>
<p>Are the UT and UNC public university systems adding new campuses to address their growing in-state population?</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire, GM is bankrupt. Houses in Detroit can be bought for $1.</p>
<p>And the GDP in Michigan is still higher than in North Carolina and the budget deficit is still higher in North Carolina than Michigan.</p>
<p>The unemployment rate in North Carolina is lower than in Michigan, but the economy in North Carolina is not robust right now.</p>
<p>The budget deficit in North Carolina is projected to be over $4 billion. </p>
<p>[Regional</a> and State Employment and Unemployment Summary](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm]Regional”>http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm)</p>
<p>
Uh, quite a few department chairs at Michigan would vehemently disagree with you. </p>
<p>Here’s a quote from a professor at Michigan: “It’s impossible for me to predict what the situation will be here at Michigan in the fall–as a state institution we’ve always had funding limitations, but now things are even more complicated with Michigan’s economic situation.”</p>
<p>[Carolina</a> Budget Information | The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill](<a href=“http://universityrelations.unc.edu/budget/]Carolina”>http://universityrelations.unc.edu/budget/)</p>
<p>UNC has hired Bain to look at its budget issues.</p>
<p>On the plus side, UNC looks like it got a little bloated over the years, so the students may not be affected too much.</p>
<p>Tuitions are going up. That’s a given.</p>
<p>
Yep. In fact, tuition will rise by <em>gasp</em> $200. </p>
<p>[$200</a> tuition hike is regrettable, reasonable | CharlotteObserver.com](<a href=“http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/story/753135.html]$200”>http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/story/753135.html)</p>
<p>Yeah. Right. That’s all they are going up. :)</p>
<p>I’m looking at the next several years. ;)</p>
<p>When will people realize here that hawkette does nothing but ■■■■■ for certain schools over others here with her subjective manipulation of so-called objective facts or outright unsupported theories?</p>
<p>No one in this thread really denies that these 5 universities are all peers and outstanding universities. </p>
<p>The real point of contention is whether UNC, as hawkette posits, will clearly come out the winner in the next 10, 20, 30??? years as the public university of choice because of its current and/or future financial standing. The answer to that question is a resounding MAYBE and NOBODY KNOWS.</p>
<p>What we do know is that all public universities are facing losses in the endowments and losses in public funding, UNC included. Also, we know that UNC’s endowment is on the lower end of the scale compared to the 4 other peers mentioned, which does affect its ability to compete anyway you slice it. UNC also borrows money at a higher cost than some of its peers even if only a little bit. Also, UNC charges less tuition which means that less money fills its coffers every year from student tuition.</p>
<p>On the plus side, lower tuition and strong financial aid (assuming it continues, which we don’t know) attracts a higher caliber student in the long run possibly. Also, a stronger state economy (which is debated by others here) ensures a steadier stream of state funding. Of course, other universities can make up losses of state funding with larger endowments. </p>
<p>Bottom line, no one can know for sure if UNC will lead the pack in the near or distant future. And, Hawkette does not really care if it will. Any perusal of her posts would lead you to the conclusion that she consistently places private institutions on a pedestal at the expense public peers. She just keeps trying to start ****ing matches among supporters and alumni of various schools in order to ultimately make each school look bad. We should all avoid that trap and just argue that each one of her outrageous theories and “rankings” are outright bunk.</p>
<p>^^^100% agree.</p>
<p>Tranandy, what you say is true.</p>
<p>Some of us just can’t help ourselves. :)</p>
<p>I agree with much of Tranandy’s post, except for the next to last paragraph. UNC’s generous financial aid and cheaper tuition does not attract a higher caliber student body than the other four public schools mentioned in this post. At best, UNC’s student body is roughly equal to the students at the other elite public universities. And is it just me or were UCLA, Texas, Wisconsin and UIUC left out? Those 4 universities should be mentioned.</p>
<p>concur with alexandre but for a different reason. The 10% OOS cap at NC means that the enrolled numbers are just too small to be meaningful to the student body as a whole, particularly in contrast with UVa’s 33% OOS.</p>
<p>No doubt UNC CH is an excellent school but shouldn’t NC’s 10+% unemployment rate impact state funding for the flagship U? I see UNC under many of the same fiscal pressures you cite for its state competitors, UM, UC-B, UVA.</p>
<p>tranandy,
Over my years on CC, I have created many threads that present factual data to compare and contrast colleges. Within this thread, post # 17 would be a good example of this. As a lawyer, you undoubtedly know the value of having numbers to support an argument…and you also know that when the numbers are not in your favor, then you must knock down the messenger. I get it and probably others do as well. </p>
<p>My objective here and elsewhere is to let the unbiased facts come out and help readers appreciate and understand a great variety of schools in new and hopefully clearer way. Sometimes the result can be positive, eg, some readers may now see U North Carolina in a new, more esteemed light vs its public peers. </p>
<p>Alex,
U North Carolina does not have an engineering program which, as you certainly know, always increases the math scoring of any undergraduate student body. But let’s compare how U North Carolina compares with U Michigan, which has 20%+ of its students in engineering:</p>
<p>Critical Reading
590-690 U North Carolina
580-690 U Michigan</p>
<p>Math
620-700 U North Carolina
640-740 U North Carolina</p>
<p>Writing
590-690 U North Carolina
590-700 U Michigan</p>
<p>Total
1800-2080 U North Carolina
1810-2130 U Michigan</p>
<p>Looks pretty close to me and that virtually all of the difference is in the Math scores (probably heavily generated by U Michigan’s engineering students). Want to revise your thinking that U North Carolina’s student body is not as strong as U Michigan’s or do you want to claim that these two student bodies aren’t pretty darn close to equivalent?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Once again, apart from state positions the economy is North Carolina is probably one of the best in the country, and things are booming there. Any state budget shortfalls this year or next year will be eased as the region’s population boom continues and employment continues to grow. As I said earlier, unemployment dropped in every single NC county at last report, and many areas (apart from the most rural areas) are actually booming.</p>
<p>hawkette,
You are still avoiding my question. You still have not provided any valid reason behind your claim:</p>
<p>“Of these, I think that U North Carolina may be the best positioned financially to improve its position among top American universities.”</p>
<p>Sure, UNC has the lowest OOS tuition. It has that position for at least the past 10 years. But I fail to see how that would give UNC a better position FINANCIALLY to improve compared to its peers.</p>
<p>The fact remains that UNC has a lower bond rating (you are more optimistic about UNC’s financial future than Moody or S&P), and a much lower endowment. So what makes UNC better positioned financially to grow IN THE FUTURE? More state appropriations (Chancellor Thorp is expecting a 5% permanent cut in state funding)? Raising more endowment faster than its peers? or what?</p>
<p>"“Of these, I think that U North Carolina may be the best positioned financially to improve its position among top American universities.”</p>
<p>Maybe he’s stating that if it wants to, UNC can raise its tuition to match that of UVA or Michigan and as a result provide better services/resources to students than UVA or Michigan since UNC is already a very good school.</p>
<p>
Post #17 does not support your claim that UNC is “best positioned financially to improve its position” compare to its peers.</p>
<p>GoBlue81,</p>
<p>Maybe UNC will be best position financially to improve its financial position in the next few years compared to its peers because NC has an improving economy, while Michigan and California have economies that are in deep trouble.</p>
<p>UCBChemEGrad, the UNC system has LOTS of satellite campuses besides Chapel Hill (Wilmington, Asheville, Greensboro, Charlotte, to name a few). The UNC system does not need to add more schools.</p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina</a></p>
<p>^ I second that. Personally, I think there are too many public colleges in North Carolina! In total we have 17 schools (don’t count the North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics in the Wikipedia list – that’s just a residential magnet high school).</p>