<p>The supporters of Michigan have ties with the school and have varying degrees of intimacy with the school.</p>
<p>Hawkette, you read magazines, and think USNWR is gospel.</p>
<p>You were actually hoping that Mich had 400 engineering students fighting over 20 jobs. Very informed. ;)</p>
<p>I find it ironic that Hawkette calls out all the Michigan boosters as being related to the school whereas she has been mum with her academic ties.</p>
<p>dtark,
LOL. I certainly don’t think USNWR is gospel with that godawful subjective PA scoring. But I like a lot of their objective data and enjoy comparing the various colleges on things that actually will matter to an attending student. Removes a lot of the hype that some regularly post here about their favorite colleges.</p>
<p>As for the engineering students issue, check the record and my role in the discussion. I wasn’t. Nice try at misinformation/undermining. Better luck next time…:p</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire,</p>
<p>You have absolutely no idea of what you’re saying.</p>
<p>UNC does not ring a bell outside of the US. Heck, it does not even have a good reputation in the West Coast. How would you expect to be a highly respected school abroad?</p>
<p>UNC is a good school. But sadly, it’s not one of the very best schools around. Berkeley is a top 10 school globally. Michigan is a top 20 school globally. UNC isn’t even a top 50 university globally. Aside from that, it does not have a top-ranked professional school. Therefore, it is an overstatement to say UNC is in Berkeley’s league. It’s not.</p>
<p>Hawkette, forgive me if I don’t remember. It was 20 recruiters or 20 jobs. Whatever. I got the sentiment right. :)</p>
<p>Does USNWR use the only objective data there is about schools?
Does USNWR use the only subjective data there is about schools?</p>
<p>Are the weights that are used by USNWR factually the only weights that can be used to judge schools?</p>
<p>And is a person with a SAT score of 2150 smarter than a student with a SAT score of 2050?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hawkette,</p>
<p>I’m actually Italian, grew up in Singapore/Malaysia, educated in the UK (went to Girton College, Cambridge) and currently working in the Philippines. And, no, I’m not pumping up Michigan either on this message board or in real life. I’m just presenting on here what I know about the school. It wouldn’t make me rich to pimp UMIch on this message board, but I think it’s unfair for UMich when it’s labeled as something that it really is not such as the one you’re making on here.
I respect your opinion though.</p>
<p>
Of course! How can you possibly communicate, let alone share a classroom, with those 2050 dummies?</p>
<p>lol…</p>
<p>"kb…
Posts: 153 “At CMU, Michigan and Berkeley, there might be 400 engineers competing for 20 or so job openings at the major companies”</p>
<p>… what a worthless statement." </p>
<p>Hawkette…
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,583 kb,</p>
<p>“I would probably agree with you that the statement is inaccurate. However, I think you would do us all a lot more good if you didn’t deride the statement, but rather presented the evidence that refutes the claim. Can you do that?”</p>
<p>ucb,
Invariably threads where some traditional ox gets gored, the SOP is to attack the messenger. I’ve been accused of being affiliated with about a half dozen different colleges. LOL. The problems usually occur when some comparison emerges that casts a school in a light that is out-of-sync with the rose-colored view of its partisans or is at odds with the conventional wisdom as ordained by traditional elite academia. The fact is that I admire a great many schools and I have a different view than some on a few others. </p>
<p>I have my biases for the type of schools I like and haven’t hidden that at all. I like ones that offer the best undergraduate college experience, ie, are undergraduate friendly, provide good classroom environments for their students to learn and also offer a lot of fun and diverse activities outside of the classroom, including a strong athletic life. IMO, some of the schools that do this best are:</p>
<p>Privates: Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Wake Forest, Boston College, Tulane, U Miami</p>
<p>Publics: UC Berkeley, U Virginia, UCLA, U Michigan, U North Carolina, Georgia Tech, U Wisconsin, U Illinois, U Florida, U Texas, Penn State, U Georgia, Texas A&M</p>
<p>dstark,
Read much? I agreed with kb’s view. </p>
<p>You must be one of those 2050 “dummies” :D</p>
<p>You probably agree but you wanted proof… lol</p>
<p>You don’t understand what you wrote? lol</p>
<p>You would think that somebody that ranks schools would know information like that. ;)</p>
<p>So is a person with a 2150 SAT score smarter than somebody with a SAT score of 2050?</p>
<p>dstark,
Classic strategery. The numbers don’t work in a way to benefit your school. Undermine the numbers!!! </p>
<p>My view is that looking solely at standardized test scores is a blunt methodology for making these comparisons, but hardly a useless one. In my view, there is typically a higher correlation of top student with good scores than top student with mediocre scores. I also think I’m in pretty good company in believing that there is some value in using test scores to judge the academic strength of an applicant. </p>
<p>Considerable Weight , Moderate Weight , Limited or No Weight </p>
<p>75.9% , 17.4% , 6.7% , Grades in college prep courses
61.5% , 25.3% , 13.2% , Strength of curriculum
60.4% , 27.9% , 11.7% , Standardized Test scores (SAT, ACT)
51.2% , 36.4% , 12.5% , Grades in all courses
27.9% , 30.6% , 41.5% , Essay and/or writing sample
23.1% , 38.6% , 38.3% , Class rank
21.2% , 40.7% , 38.0% , Counselor recommendation
20.8% , 31.2% , 48.1% , Student’s demonstrated interest
19.5% , 41.1% , 39.3% , Teacher recommendation
10.4% , 23.1% , 66.5% , Interview
7.6% , 37.0% , 55.4% , Extra-curricular activities
7.6% , 23.5% , 68.8% , Subject test scores (AP, IB)
6.3% , 13.4% , 80.4% , State graduation exam scores
5.2% , 8.5% , 86.3% , SAT II scores
2.9% , 21.5% , 75.5% , Work</p>
<p>You didn’t answer my question.</p>
<p>It wasn’t difficult.</p>
<p>So is a person with a 2150 SAT score smarter than somebody with a SAT score of 2050?</p>
<p>You know hawkette I put you on ignore months ago, and I still have to read your tripe through other posts. It’s obvious you’re obsessed with Michigan. I really would appreciate it if you’d stop these incessant negative posts regarding U of M. Uninformed minds might actually think you have a clue as to what you’re talking about. Everytime I see someone agree with your biased statements, I cringe. I am sure I’m not alone with these sentiments. You are welcome to reply to this message, but of course I won’t see it. At least I hope so.</p>
<p>rjkofnovi, read my post [url="<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062664307-post120.html"]#120[/url">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1062664307-post120.html"]#120[/url</a>]. I definitely agree with you. This nonsense needs to stop.</p>
<p>I wish you didn’t erase your last comments UCBChemEGrad. Now it looks like I am just spouting off about nothing. :-(</p>
<p>tenisghs,
Sorry, but I didn’t see your comment until just now.</p>
<p>I can understand that you may not like some of the comparisons, but U Michigan is only one of many colleges in this and in many other threads. The pattern is that U Michigan folks don’t like the fact that their school frequently does not compare well with other highly ranked colleges and are angry with me for posting information that reflects this. Then it’s on to “kill the messenger” rather than argue the merits. </p>
<p>In answer to your request, I have stated elsewhere that I don’t view U Michigan as being unable to manage its way thru the state’s current economic troubles. I don’t think it will thrive and I think others (like U North Carolina) may have more present geographic and demographic advantages. But I don’t doubt that your school will still be a strong institution a decade or two from now. I do, however, wonder what today’s sharp financial pressures will mean for current and prospective undergrads and I have similar concern for students at the top UCs and U Virginia. That’s where this thread began. </p>
<p>Re your theory about the state of Michigan’s future, I think that your comments are a far more constructive response than trying to dismiss me. Present your argument, provide something substantive to support it and I’m sure that many others and I would be happy to discuss it. I won’t necessarily agree with you, but I’m not trying to damage you personally if I disagree with you. </p>
<p>rjko,
How revealing that you ignore those who might hold a different view than you. Don’t want to let inconvenient facts get in the way of your certainty, do ya? Hint to rjko: You know, that’s not exactly the most effective way to defend your position. </p>
<p>Oh well, your absence is certainly not a great loss for me or the quality of the discussions, but when/if you enter future threads, I hope you’ll come armed with more than,</p>
<p>“U Michigan’s PA is 4.4. ABC College’s is lower. Therefore, U Michigan is better. Yada yada yada….”</p>
<p>hawkette,</p>
<p>I asked my friends in Germany have they ever heard of Univ of Michigan. Everyone said YES. (Heck, they have even heard of Northwestern, my alma mater, but that’s not the point of this discussion.) If I asked them about UNC, they would give me a deer-in-headlights look. UNC may provide a high-quality undergraduate education, but it’s not in the same league internationally as Michigan and Berkeley. As everyone has pointed out: UNC stringent cap on OOS enrollment hurts its reputation. As long as this cap exists, the brightest OOS high school students won’t waste their time applying there. The UCs can cap its OOS enrollment (although Berkeley will slightly admit more OOS students because of budget issues) because California has 36 million residents. </p>
<p>If I was an OOS high school student looking at public universities, UNC would not be among my choices. U-M President Mary Sue Coleman stated in the news recently that over 60% of Michigan’s undergraduate applications are from out-of-state students!! Do you know what this means? Michigan is so well-known and prestigious that students nationwide and worldwide will pay top dollar to matriculate here. UNC does not have that kind of reputation (land the lack of strong professional schools hurts even more so). </p>
<p>Univ of Michigan will continue to do just fine financially and academically in the next decade.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I find this a sorry oversimplification of the contributions of some of the “U Michigan folks” who have provided data, clarifications, insight, and different perspectives. </p>
<p>I don’t get angry with you for comparing U-M to other schools in unflattering ways. I think I’m pretty clear-eyed about where U-M stands and the its pluses and minuses when compared to other schools. However, I get annoyed with you (and other posters) when I feel you/they overstate your expertise, mis-state facts, or mislead students about the significance of your views/findings.</p>
<p>
Thanks for your concern, hawkette.</p>
<p>If anything, the current budget proposals have UC dropping the Cal Grant awards for low and middle income students, as well as possibly limiting freshman enrollment. Ironically, keeping more kids out of the system should boost its standing in USNWR rankings…and people may look on it more favorably because of it. </p>
<p>
Sorry buddy. I’ll try to reconstruct what I said.</p>