<p>Having high test scores and interesting ECs means you're a smart, interesting, engaged person... I don't understand. Being individualistic does not mean having bad grades and no activities. Wes isn't going to admit people like that.</p>
<p>I am a little more than halfway through the book - it is fascinating! Just making me a little more nervous about D getting into a school we felt pretty good about previously (perhaps ignorantly). She has good stats and some leadership (captain of 3 sport teams, class VP, NHS Pres) but not sure anything that would "grab" someone like Ralph. I love the book though. D has also applied to Amherst, Conn Coll, Dart, Brown, H, RPI, Providence. Seems like a crapshoot at most of these schools!!! Just more to be nervous about for the next 30 days but the book is GOOD!</p>
<p>Jessephen –Steinberg's perspective on the admissions process is that basically it is a crapshoot. But I don't think he's right and he exaggerates that aspect of the process. I'd say in the large majority of cases, it's your grades and scores. If you've got 'em, your in. If you don't, you get rejected right away. Then there's a group in the middle who are borderline for whom it truly is up in the air. But usually the grades and scores are fate. Nowadays with Naviance, it's easy to see where you stand and what your chances are of getting into a school.</p>
<p>I agree with midatl_dd; I think people really exaggerate the importance of ECs and essays and stuff when they say "the school sees you as a person, not just your scores". I'm sure they do take things like that into account, but I think schools stand by good old grades and scores more than they'd like to admit.</p>
<p>The problem is that there isn't room for all the applicants with top grades and scores at selective schools; the recs, essays, and ECs become the tipping factors. Top grades and scores are necessary to even be considered.</p>
<p>^ Yes - I'd like to think of it as a cake, with the grades & scores as the actual cake, and the recs, essays, and ECs as the icing.</p>
<p>You can't have a proper cake with only icing, now can you?</p>
<p>I like the cake and icing analogy.<br>
D did get an e-mail (a while ago) from Ad Officer at Wes stating she liked her essay a lot. Hope that is good news. We were all surprised at that.<br>
Her scores are very good but not great compared to some cc posters. When I read all the stats posted here on cc I sometimes wonder if these people are for real. Where do kids find time to take the courses they take, be a class officer and president of a couple of clubs, play 3 varsity sports per year AND cure cancer AND write a book about it AND work 15 hours a week. (obviously some sarcasm here) Honestly my D is so busy with her sports and NHS and courses (4 APs and one honors) that she is burnt out and has had pneumonia twice this year and the flu once. I don't think she gets enough rest and she is not half as busy as some of the posters on cc sound. Do these kids just not sleep?! This is so different than it was when I applied to school. That was another thing I really liked about this book - the historical perspective. It made me realize that all this craziness is recent and indeed was not going on when I applied to college.</p>
<p>Jessephen, I think some mix of the following three things is happening at this site:</p>
<p>1) A few kids are making inflated claims about their credentials, either to make themselves feel good, or possibly to discourage other applicants
2) The most outstanding students are a little more likely to post their credentials
3) Competition for admission to the top schools has become so fierce that the qualifications of the average applicant really has become very high</p>
<p>The competition has been driven up largely due to supply and demand. We have ever-larger applicant pools competing for a number of places that remains nearly flat. This drives up the credentials of the majority of accepted students, who are selected primarily on the basis of grades, test scores, and course rigor.</p>
<p>For some accepted students, conventional academic standards are slightly relaxed (though usually still high), for many reasons. Some are under-represented minorities or first-generation college applicants who have succeeded despite adversities. Some are athletes, legacies, or kids with an exceptional talent in some niche. Then there are the modestly bright, one-armed juggling champions who hide away in cargo containers to escape religious persecution in their native Azerbaijan, arrive in New York harbor, and immediately fill out a college application. Every top school needs a few of those, to maintain its marketing advantage as a place for amazing people.</p>
<p>This further increases the competition among students who must compete primarily on the basis of grades, test scores, and course rigor. And it increases the importance of being able to tell a compelling story about just what makes you so special.</p>
<p>There was recently a pretty good study suggesting that students - like everybody else in the world - only have a limited amount of energy - psychic and otherwise. This study was looking at the differences between students who were strong in the social realm and those who were strong in the academic realm. The reason for the differentiation is the limited amount of energy each individual has and how he or she channels it (of course there are variations, but the further you get away from the norm the less likely the variations).</p>
<p>Based on this I think so some of the resumes being posted on this list might be kind of exaggerated. The compeition is so intense I can see this happening. But I also think adcoms realize this. I think what has been happening is that students have to prove the ECs their passionate about just like they have to prove their grades. This is relatively easy with varsity sports, but especially artiistic ECs probably need some back up. That I think is why Arts supplements seem to have become a bigger part of the application process. You can say you took ten years of dance, but you probably need a DVD of your dance and a letter from a teacher or school choreographer. You can say you were very involved in theater, but you probably need an audition tape or plans for a set you designed and a letter from your school's theater director.</p>
<p>CenterUSdad I can tell you that Wesleyan in particular is looking for a kid to show true passion in a single pursuit, be it academic or extracurricular, rather than participation in dozens of different activities.</p>
<p>The kids who post their very long set of skills don't realize it but they may not be helping themselves with Wesleyan. For Wesleyan, it's much more important that you rose to a position of leadership in a single activity than that you danced, played violin, competed in Model UN, and supported your ethnic group in high school.</p>
<p>midatl_dd: I agree 100%. I've told this to people on chances threads as well- people comment "oh, your ECs are weak," when in reality the person has a better resume than someone with 3 times the number of ECs. they want to see a passion. period.</p>
<p>Isn't the student who is president of her HS single passion organization in competition with students who are president of their HS main passion organization and also danced since kindergarten, earned her GS Gold Award, and wrote for the HS newspaper? Is it generally better to be the former than the latter, to have that single focus?</p>
<p>Honestly, I don't think any of those count as a "passion". Maybe I'm being mean, but whose passion is organization?
Being student body president is impressive because it shows that you can be competent and a good leader who is well-liked by your peers, but it doesn't show that you have any real passion for something (like being accomplished in writing, theatre, soccer, art, music, community service, etc. would).</p>
<p>I think the "one single focus" thing means that you shouldn't scatter your energies into many different areas without really focusing deeply on any one (it would be better to be an accomplished, concert violinist than to play some violin in your spare time AND play a little soccer AND have 20 hours of community service). If you can be focused and amazing at more than one thing, obviously I think admissions officers would like that, but that's not usually an option for most students ;)</p>
<p>By "those," I mean being president of the student body, just to clarify.</p>
<p>And I do think that that is impressive, for the reasons I said, I just don't think it counts as a "passion".</p>
<p>I agree completely that being student body president (which I purposely did not name) and all those I named are not passion issues. Passion is something more like being GSA or acting or debate president after three years of heavy involvement, and the passion has to come through on the app.</p>
<p>My point is that those with just one significant passion issue are in competition with those who have that and other significant ECs. Maybe this is obvious, or maybe some disagree. ;)</p>
<p>If you've got it, you'll know it. If you don't, maybe you won't.</p>
<p>You're not in competition with people with more ECs. It doesn't work that way. Your not really in competition with anyone. The school is making a judgment about you as a person. They use your ECs as one piece of evidence to get to know who you are. And usually they do a pretty good job of understanding a kid and finding good matches for their institution. </p>
<p>They basically want to see that you are a great student and will make a productive, interesting contribution to their community. And I mean great, not good, student.</p>
<p>I think that's accurate (again), midatl.</p>
<p>Sigh. There are not an unlimited number of seats at selective LACs. Not all great students can be admitted. :(</p>
<p>I think playing a little violin, playing a little soccer, and doing 20 hours of community service is fine (but I'm not an admissions officer). I would think that students at this age should be exploring lots of different areas and not everybody is good enough at one thing to excel or have a passion in one area. Isn't that partially what college is about, exploring different areas and hopefully while you are there discovering a passion?<br>
I think the problem is students who don't enjoy what thay are doing and do various activities JUST to look good on a college ap. When I see these young kids write to cc and ask what ECs they should be doing so they can get accepted to <insert school="" name="" here=""> that is what saddens me.</insert></p>