<p>So d called today to say that the prof in one of her seminars says he has received one memo after another from the admin about grades. He announces that although he doesn't agree with this policy, no more than 30 percent of the students in the class can get an A-range grade. This is contrary to what Dean Malkiel has announced all along...that if a student deserves a A, he or she will get one, regardless of the percentages. In her letter to parents last year, she claimed to be adamant on that point. <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/%7Eodoc/PPN_NM.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.princeton.edu/~odoc/PPN_NM.pdf</a> You can see the raised quote in that article. </p>
<p>For the first time, I am seriously thinking of writing to her. That last point -- if she meant it -- just isn't getting through. </p>
<p>There is a typo in the sentence, but the point he is making -- that a student can earn As all through the semester and then get knocked down to a B+ at the end, because the professor kept to a percentage -- is one I have heard from many students and parents.</p>
<p>I am really sick of this topic at this point, but the admin does not appear to have an iota of understanding of the students' daily situation.</p>
<p>It seems to depend on the professor. At one of the department open houses, a professor specifically said that, since most of the faculty was tenured, they were committed to giving whatever grades they want regardless of administrative pressure. Assistant professors probably can't afford to be as flexible, however, which could be a problem for me. I would say at least one third of my politics class is compoased of junior politics majors; it seems unfair that no matter how excellent my work may be, I cannot recieve an "A" range grade unless I am as good as students two years older who have already entered the department. The policy forces an "A" to be defined in relation to the best in the class rather than in relation to a fixed standard of achievement, which isn't fair.</p>
<p>However, because Princeton is such a well-known school, prospective grad schools and employers will know about the policy. I have heard that the college intends to make a note of their new standards on all transcripts, which should help a bit.</p>
<p>I'm with you, ICargirl. Btw, may I ask you which department that was, that said that since they are mostly tenured they're not going to let themselves be pressured?</p>
<p>wow i think your daughter should spend more time on having a college experiance and less on the worrying about getting knocked down a plus or minus</p>
<p>travis, I see that you have posted concerns about the ACT, the SAT II, and your musical instruments. Everyone brings his or her own situation here, and there's no need to judge another person's concerns. That I post about the current climate re grades at Princeton does not indicate that my daughter or any of the many other students who dislike the new system and the way the transition is being implemented -- including the campus newspaper's editorial board and the undergraduate student government president -- are not otherwise having a wonderful college experience. That a top school should be demanding goes without saying. That a climate in the current system is arbitrary and confusing is disappointing, given the highly intelligent people who run the university.</p>
<p>Thank you, aparent. I just want to clarify that I am having a great experience here, and I appreciate how intellectually stimulating Princeton is every day. That doesn't mean I can't oppose a particular policy or care about my grades. I would never suggest that someone not apply to Princeton because of the grade cap, but I don't approve of any blanket policy that can't be altered to fit individual situations and needs.</p>
<p>Harvard is one to talk about grade inflation - what were the most recent numbers, something like 94% of students graduate with honors?</p>
<p>The point of an Ivy League education is that it should be hard enough that we AREN'T getting A's in everything. Most of us are not brilliant at every single subject we plan on taking, and as such shouldn't expect perfect GPA's etc. And if anyone picks their classes based on how low the "competition" is to get that oh so magical (and meaningless) A, well, I find it tragic that they want to compromise their education like that.</p>
<p>I plan on working my hardest in every class I take and accepting that I'll get the grade I deserve. It's that simple. If there are 35% of kids smarter than me in a class, so be it. The education we are getting here is worth infinitely more than the letter attached to it.</p>
<p>I think this whole concept of "deserving A's" is stupid. When someone says that they "deserve an A", what are they talking about? Do they mean that their work is at A-level? Well, that completely depends on the class and its grading system. One cannot say that they deserve an A if the grading system doesn't give them one, because what one deserves is defined by the grading system. Grades are relative. There is nothing absolute or universal about them. </p>
<p>Grade inflation correlates with pride. If people would just realize and admit that they aren't so amazing, grade inflation would not exist.</p>
<p>From my source v. familiar with graduate school admissions - it may make a small difference now that Princeton has this policy for high order grad schools - but not much.</p>
<p>His main concern was actually that having a quota on As for seminars will be well-nigh impossible to administer.</p>
<p>Alumother, thanks. "His main concern was actually that having a quota on As for seminars will be well-nigh impossible to administer." I don't know. Once you set out to give very few As, it can be done. If there are 10 students in your seminar, you give 3 of them A-range grades. But many students seem to think think the the lecture courses are graded more harshly in order to balance out the upper-level courses. According to several reports I've heard, 20 percent of the Class of 2008 has an A-range GPA. For the most part, they have been in the larger courses.</p>
<p>Well that means that my source's concerns are probably shared by the Princeton professors. The problem he brought up is that in a small seminar it would just be too hard to decide WHO got the non-As.</p>
<p>" wow i think your daughter should spend more time on having a college experiance and less on the worrying about getting knocked down a plus or minus "</p>
<p>Easy for you to say Travis; try understanding somebody else's situation. For those who want to attend elite grad programs (esp med school), grades are their life. Don't assume your goals are the same as everyone's.</p>
<p>The whole plan is ridiculous and mishandled. It's all too easy for the Dean to claim that those students who deserve A's will get them, without having this work out in real life. Essentially, they are making it so that your grade depends on how others in the class do - and all of a sudden the kid sitting next to you is a competitor rather than a partner to learn from. This is a dangerous mentality to enforce on kids at a school like princeton and goes rather counter to the camaraderie they like to put into the student body.</p>
<p>It's common sense that grades should be based on the work you do and the effort you put in, not on those around you. If you had the entire math olympiad team and put them in an intro to calc class, is it right to force some of them to get less than an A even though they all know the material?</p>
<p>Right, and by making grades even more of a central issue, this has been a step in the wrong direction. It encourages kids not to explore new subjects by sampling a diversity of courses due to fear of getting a bad grade in something they are unfamilar with.</p>
<p>Interestingly, the administrators have decided to go through with an issue that is widely unpopular with both the students and the faculty. Says something about how much communication is going on between the three parties.</p>