the GRE is the classic US money making machine and fails as a test

Graduate School
1

<p>I just can't get over how idiotic is the GRE. The archaic words you need to learn don't even show up in the passages they give you to read, and they claim that are terms used in publications commonly read by grad students.</p>

<p>The math is nothing but mindless tricks that require some logic but a very specific methodology for being solved in such a short time. And such methodologies only work in the exam specific context, so it's useless in real world. I felt such a waste of my time studying for this test when I could have done real and meaningful research or studied something that actually enriched my knowledge.</p>

<p>If you think I am frustrated because I have received low scores, that is not the reason. I believe it is a non-sense way of testing and ranking a researcher's ability. I only see a profit-making company that has become a lobby. And I have noticed that some younger faculty are putting less and less value on the GRE. If I ever get to any position where I can put pressure on a department to void its use I will do it. I hope departments move away from it, it's a vicious cycle that needs to be stopped. I think the subject tests make more sense than the general test. But maybe the subject test would diminish the interdisciplinarity of the candidate pool.</p>

<p>I have applied to PhD programs in Europe, Asia, and Oceania and NOBODY has asked for the GRE. Only in the US and maybe, but maybe, Canada.</p>

<p>What are your thoughts?</p>

2

<p>I completely agree with you. I am an international student (Europe), and maybe also because of my upbringing and the education system I was raised in, I believe that standardized testing does NOT truly reflect one’s potential.
The only real reason I can imagine for valuing the GRE in an application process is that since getting a good score, just as you said, mostly requires memorization and practice, a higher score is ‘proof’ of a bigger motivation to get into grad school and a higher committment to graduate studies. Not that I agree with that, I just think that maybe that is what they figure.</p>

<p>Plus, the price of the exam itself and of sending results is completely unjustified.</p>

3

<p>

</p>

<p>Maybe the GRE isn’t asked for by schools in Europe, Asia, and Oceania because the test is intended for admissions into U.S. grad schools. The U.S. grad schools aren’t putting a gun to the head of int’l students to make them study in the U.S. If you don’t like it, then go study in Europe, Asia, or Oceania.</p>

4

<p>

If they showed up in the passages in the test, they would essentially be testing vocab twice during the game. The relatively simple vocab of the reading sections is, I believe, intentional.</p>

<p>

While I am certain that there are tricks out there that you can learn, they are hardly required. I certainly never learned any, use math in my field, and had no problem with the GRE.</p>

<p>

So you got good scores?</p>

<p>

And most people seem to agree that it is the least-regarded element of grad admissions. It does have a few specific advantages that keep it around and maintain some merit.</p>

<p>First, it is administered by an agency external to any school or professor. Everything else in your application packet is skewed to some extent by where you get your undergrad, and while this is a poor judge it is at least an independent one. While it catches those who struggle with standardized tests, it also catches those who found the “easy” professors or who were aided in their academic career by a mentor who makes them look better than they are.</p>

<p>Second, it is applied across all disciplines. For some things, fellowships in particular, it is necessary to compare students across the full range of academia, and it helps to have a few numbers that everyone can be compared with. Bear in mind that in such a case, there are not going to be great AND objective measures - you have to pick one, and in this case the GRE is objective, not great. But it still has value - my wife was rejected for a PhD program because the only funding they had was a university fellowship which was awarded solely on the basis of GPA and GRE, because it was felt that nothing else was objective.</p>

<p>Third, it is controlled in such a manner that it is 99.999% likely to be the individual in question actually doing the work. Sad to have to say that, but some people get through with much higher grades than they usually would, thanks to the assistance (ethical or not) of other people. Group projects, tutoring, there are several ways for someone to improve their performance on the backs of others, and grad programs really want a measure of guaranteed individual performance.</p>

<p>Finally, it is controlled circumstances. Just as people can help your academic career, so too can resources. This is a test with no reference materials and a finite time limit, and it gives an indication how dependent on such thing you are. Grad school is tough enough, they want to know if you have writing problems or if you cannot do basic math without help.</p>

<p>Again, none of these are indicators that the GRE is a great test or even that it is necessarily fair, but they do show some of the reasons why the GRE is still used in so many grad admissions - it fills a niche that is desired but not likely to be filled by anything better.</p>

5

<p>If it had no utility in graduate admissions, then professors would not use it. In fact, even statistics and educational measurement programs use the exam, and they are more than capable of determining whether it has any predictive validity in the success of their students.</p>

<p>The words are not archaic; I hear them in my graduate program on a regular basis. They don’t show up in the passages because the passages test something different (reading comprehension). I also didn’t learn any “tricks” for the math section; I just know how to do math. It’s not “tricks,” it’s simple logic and mental mathematical computations, which is very useful in certain programs. I’m not saying it’s a perfect test or even a great test - the analytical writing portion is abysmal, and I say that having gotten a 6.0. It doesn’t test graduate-level writing, or even college-level writing. But it’s an adequate test for grad school purposes, and there’s some evidence that it predicts first year grades in grad school.</p>