The Horrible Tracking System

Parent Cafe
41

<p>Surfette: I'm also in the Hawai'i system and accelerated, and I've run out of math.</p>

<p>This is what I did: Advanced math through elementary school (actually, come to think of it, it started in the fifth grade when our teacher picked two of us to advance. You sure we don't know eachother?) and then in Intermediate started Alg 1 in 7th grade. </p>

<p>Grade 7: Algebra 1
Grade 8: Geometry
Grade 9: Algebra 2
Grade 10: Trig/Analyt
Grade 11: AP Calc (AB)
Grade 12: There's no more math offered at the school</p>

<p>Honors Track people take Pre-Alg in 7th grade and end up with AP Calc in senior year, but I have none. It kind of bothers me because I feel like I need math, but at the same time, I will be having a fantastic time in chorus.</p>

42

<p>ridonkulous: you could easily take some math by distance learning, either from one of the many colleges that offer distance learning courses, or from Stanford's EPGY program.</p>

43

<p>Tracking is certainly a topic that generates a lot of reactions. Personally, I like having multiple tracks as long as the school allows kids to change tracks if desired/required. Moving to a lower track is pretty simple. My kid's HS, has sessions mid year and during the summer, for kids who want to move up track ... from regular to honors ... or honors to AP. This <em>sounds</em> like a good system ... my kids are not deep enough into HS for us to have a lot feedback of if this allows the flexibility across tracks that would really help kids fiund the right level as they grow ... it will be interesting to see over the next couple of years.</p>

44

<p>3togo - Sounds like you have a good system. Our school district does not have summer school and is extremely picky about allowing credit for classes taken at community college and on-line classes. There is no testing out option at all.</p>

45

<p>In our district there are 3 levels of tracking. One is 2 years plus accelerated, one is one year plus accelerated, the other is regular "grade-level" progression. The tracking is across all subject matters and begins in grade 1. One must test into one of the tracks and all courses (hypothetically) are accelerated. One can test at very points during 1-9. </p>

<p>Once a child is in middle school, there is, by request, a separate math placement test anyone can take. My oldest S did that and skipped an additional year. For those willing to take the SAT or ACT test in middle school another year advancement is possible. Students in 6th grade who score above a specified level, and who have completed the prerequisite courses, may attend summer math programs at the local university that allow one to complete a year of math in about 6 weeks (this is not free of charge). My oldest S took the pre-calc course the summer before his freshman year. Accordingly, he enrolled in AP Calc AB as a freshman.</p>

<p>My youngest S has decided to take it a little slower. He did not take the placement test nor will he attend summer school, and will enter HS at what they call Integrated III around here. I asked him how he came to this approach. His very well reasoned and thought full response was as follows: He will be entering HS surrounded by new students, if he were to advance too far in math he would be around even fewer of his friends, making the transition even more difficult that first year. He said he does want to take pre-calc the summer before his sophomore year. This will allow him to finish BC as a junior and it will show up on his college app, and he will have more fully adjusted to HS and will have made new friends. I could not (and would not) argue with his reasoning.</p>

46

<p>That's a good idea, thank you! </p>

<p>I guess I could either take Calculus II or Statistics--dunno.</p>

47

<p>I know I am extremely late in responding to this thread, but it is often possible to track yourself up in a subject.</p>

<p>I was in the average math track in HS in 1989.
9th = Algebra
10th = Algebra 2
11th = Geometry / Trigonometry
12th = Pre-Calculus</p>

<p>However, I got permission from my algebra instructor to take two courses simultaneously for 10th grade. So, I went like this:
9th = Algebra
10th = Algebra 2 Honors and Geometry / Trigonmetry
11th = Pre-Calc Honors
12th = AP Calculus</p>

<p>Granted, that wouldn't work for everyone, but it got me around my 5th grade standardized test scores. </p>

<p>Also, I think taking on the extra challenge of tracking up reflected really well on my college apps, and I was able to get into a great school. :)</p>

<p>Try asking about taking two courses at once. You sometimes can get away with simultaneous enrollment!</p>

48

<p>It is a fact of life that some people learn faster than others, at math or any other subject. These people are sometimes capable of completing six years of coursework or more in what would take others four. That's why accelerated classes are necessary, and that's why it's fair to sort people into different tracks.</p>

<p>Now here's my advice to the OP and any others who feel they've been put into a lower track than they belong in.</p>

<p>See if there's any way to move up conventionally if that's what your after. Take an honors class instead of a regular class that will lead you to skipping later work. Ask a math teacher who knows you well or a counselor.</p>

<p>Look into non-school-based courses. By this, I mainly mean EPGY, as until you hit calc that may be your best option. EPGY allows you to go as fast as your talent and self-discipline allow. Yes, self-discipline; if you don't have it, EPGY may not be right for you.</p>

<p>If you're bored with the math you're being given, look into ways to broaden your mathematical horizons. <a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.artofproblemsolving.com&lt;/a> may be a good place to start. Art of Problem Solving (AoPS) classes may be your thing, though they may not really correspond well to curricular courses. Join a math team; you'll learn a lot there (if you really put your heart into it) that you would never learn in a classroom on any track, even in college. (If you want help/advice/have questions on this step, feel free to PM me.) Just remember, the high school curriculum is merely a foundation; the bulk of what I like to call "real math" lies outside of it.</p>

<p>On that last note, read this article: <a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php&lt;/a>
It has some good advice, especially Rusczyk's reminder that what matters is not getting to the top of the curricular hill, but doing whatever challenges you appropriately.</p>

49

<p>I'm glad to see that some school systems have woken up and started offering Algebra before 8th grade. Although I was one of the top math students, I didn't get Algebra until 8th grade, and that was the most advanced math track available. The math in elementary school was a JOKE - we had to go back to 2+2 every year up until 6th grade. I think I could have had Algebra as early as 4th or 5th grade if I had been getting a real education in elementary school, not the pathetic imitation of one. (Looking back, that was a period of stagnation for me.)</p>

<p>I have to wonder if the high school math curriculum has been sped up too much. One thing I learned from asking everyone on the student forum was how they can go from geometry to BC Calculus in 2 years. In the most advanced math track (which I was on) of my high school, we had Geometry in 9th grade, Advanced Algebra in 10th, Pre-Calculus in 11th, and Calculus AB in 12th. Calculus BC was not available. It seems that some high schools now do things like combine Advanced Algebra and Pre-Calculus into one year and then put students into Calculus BC the following year. I can't help but wonder if it's too much at once, especially when block schedules increase the number of classes students take. (I also think the concept of block schedules is terribly misguided. From what I've heard, it means students take more classes during the course of the school year, but that means that either the workload must increase or the curriculum must be watered down.)</p>

50

<p>When there is early grouping by ability level in late elementary school, it is usually done using a combination of standardized test scores, class performance and teacher recommendation. Summer school would have been unlikely to influence your class placement.</p>

<p>In my son's school, students are accelerated, but have to pass placement tests to move on to the next level. So there are students who end up doing Alg I in 7th grade, repeating it in 8th grade and taking it a 3rd time when they begin high school.</p>

51

<p>This subject makes me crazy. It's like all those people who talk endlessly about how their kid learned to read at three instead of five. In the end, when we are adults Nobody Cares! Math acceleration has gotten crazy and it serves no one. The kids that take algebra I three times cuz they can't pass the placement test? What is up with that. The teacher can't teach and the kids aren't ready. My kids both did alg in 8th, then the normal progression through high school. If you talk to twenty somethings who just finished college many will tell you that college math classes were very difficult for them. For some the first C they ever got. That is because those professors are actually teaching the subject not a watered down version. And the parents aren't around to push and brag about their "smart" kids....</p>

52

<p>Just a couple of parental thoughts here:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I agree with dmd77 about parental power. In our district, all a parent has to do is fill out a form that says it is okay for the student to take a class not recommended by the previous year's teacher. </p></li>
<li><p>It seems like given your early math tracking, you will take</p></li>
</ol>

<p>9th: Algebra I
10th: Geometry
11th: Algebra II
12th: This is where I would ask questions. The logical sequence would be to take some sort of Precalc course (or "Algebra III"), but precalc in our district is really just reinforcement of algebra skills, and the better students just skip it and go on to Calc. (This assumes you had Trig combined with Algebra II.)</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You can visit the web site of the math publisher your district uses to read about the content of each course. Maybe you really don't need Algebra III, especially if it is a rehash of Algebra II. Frankly, I never heard of Algebra III. When I had questions, I even corresponded by email with one of the math authors to evaluate where my student would best be placed. It couldn't hurt to try.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't think less of yourself because of this tracking system. My first kid was great at math and lucked into the fast track. For the second kid, I knew how valuable it was to get into the fast track because math is just one of those sequential subjects. But placement seemed rather random to me too. Unless you are stretching Algebra into two years (such as prealgebra with algebra I or such as algebra II with algebra III), it is the same material no matter what age you are.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Actually, our school had THREE tracks: the regular track, the honors track (which was the same as the regular track, but with a different publisher and one year earlier), and the slower track (which did stretch some of the one year course materials over two years). Actually, the slower track wasn't a bad idea, because it allowed students who needed more time to grasp concepts to really get them and to succeed with decent grades, rather than failing a course only to retake it the following year.</p>

<p>Whew, sorry this was so long!</p>

53

<p>At my school, the track was basically
8th: Algebra 1
9th: Geometry
10th: Algebra 2
11th: Pre-calc
12th: Calculus</p>

<p>There were honors and regular versions of everything. For example, for Calculus, there was BC, AB, and non-AP. And of course there were other non-tracked options (such as statistics), and you olnly had to do 3 years of math, so there were choices if you didn't want to take calculus.</p>

54

<p>I always wondered what other schools' class offerings looked like, after seeing tons of people here mentioning taking 4 AP I-didn't-know-that-even-existed classes in their junior year and whatnot. I hear a lot of people say that we should have a high school system like they do in other countries like Germany, where the kids are split up at a certain age and actually sent to completely different schools with completely different types of classes, but I always thought having different tracks was a better alternative to that because you can do essentially the same thing while all in the same building, but keep it more flexible.</p>

<p>In my school system, they single out about 20-25 kids in 6th grade that do the best in English and in math and put them into an advanced English and pre-algebra class in 7th grade, respectively. You don't really get a choice. For the math part, this enables you to take algebra in 8th, geometry in 9th, algebra 2 in 10th, precalc in 11th and ap calc in 12th.</p>

<p>In 8th grade, based on how well you did in 7th grade you can get placed into more advanced classes, including history and science and if you did well in the languages overview class in 7th grade you get to take a language starting in 8th grade, which will allow 5 years total. By 10th grade there are pretty much 3 established tracks. The general track is the lowest, which is pretty much for all the people that the school just hopes will graduate and stop taking up classroom space. The college prep track, which is meant for the average-intelligence college-bound students. I took college prep English one year, I felt like I'd regressed about 3 or 4 years. And then there's the advanced track which turns into AP in 12th grade.</p>

<p>As far as switching I know that it was possible for students to take algebra 2 and geometry at the same time, which would put them in precalc in 11th despite having taken algebra in 9th, but only a few people do this. As far as the other classes, generally some people switched down from advanced to college prep but I don't know of anyone that switched up or wanted to, and I don't know what the school's policy would have been on it. I do know that you couldn't switch to the general track unless you were literally failing.</p>

55

<p>I think it really depends alot on what math publisher your school uses. We use UCSMP (Chicago math...opinions will vary) which gives
6th: Transition Math
7th: Algebra I
8th: Geometry
9th: Algebra II
10th: Functions, Statistics and Trigonometry
11th: AP Calc AB (or optional "precalc" for those who need more algebra practice)
12th: AP Calc BC (or Calc AB for those who took precalc)</p>

<p>I know a neighboring district that uses a different publisher that offers a non-traditional math sequence called Integrated Math I, Integrated Math II, etc. This system teaches threads of all math disciplines each year.</p>

<p>For those who need longer to grasp concepts or need more reinforcement and practice, there are other pathway options. It's true, Geometry has nothing to do with the rest of the sequence, so you could double up along the way. But personally, I think taking two maths in the same year might be a little intense for most people, given the daily homework and all.</p>

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<p>flibbity had a good suggestion, you could doubble up on your math for the year. at my school they do placements in math and science by state wide test results but when you enter hs if you feel that you can complete the upper level work you just had your parents call and talk to the curriculum supervisor and that was that......the only downside is if your parents pettitioned you in and you really couldnt handle it tough, you had to live w/ your decision</p>

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<p>At my school (Private) the accelerated track was not just a faster pace: It was a different teaching style. We got problem sets and tried to 'discover' as a class the methods we needed to use to solve them. The next day, we would discuss what we found and our teacher would fill in any holes. As to which class you took when, that was all done by placement tests in 7th grade. I took Calc BC in 11th grade because when I was in 7th grade I placed into Algebra (by skipping pre-alg).</p>

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<p>ebeeeee: Math acceleration won't be out of hand until students are forced/pressured into taking classes for which they're not ready. (I'll admit, this may already be happening.) However, there are students who were ready for algebra in 6th grade and will go crazy if you make them wait two years.</p>

<p>The issue with people doing poorly in college math classes probably has nothing to do with tracking. It has to do with the way we expect the classes to be taught, emphasizing drill problems and memorization. College math classes are not about drill problems and memorization, and that's more likely the reason why people who succeeded in high school begin to have trouble. firus's school's method seems particularly suited to fixing this problem: "discovering methods" is not very far away from "proving theorems" and understanding things intuitively.</p>

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<p>At my schools, there are several tracks; however, these tracks are installed so early that it's hard to break out of them without taking a summer class.</p>

<p>The two most common ones are</p>

<p>8th: Pre-Algebra (or 8th grade math)
9th: Algebra I
10th: Geometry
11th: Algebra II
12th: Pre-calculus or Math Models (for students who want to take another math class but didn't do that well in Algebra II)</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>8th: Algebra I
9th: Geometry
10th: Algebra II
11th: Pre-calculus
12th: Calculus AB or Calculus BC (depending on the student performance in Pre-cal)</p>

<p>Some students can take Algebra I in 7th grade, or as early as 6th grade. However, I resent this sort of tracking, mostly because of problems I have had with this. In 6th grade, I moved from Vietnam to the US and was put in a normal 6th grade math class. I got B+ and A- averages in there, even though I did not know any English at all (the math was basically things I've learned in 4th grade Vietnamese math classes). </p>

<p>However, because I was in an ESL class, I was put in an ESL math class 7th grade, regardless of my grades in my 6th grade math class. This ESL math class was basically a 1st grade math class that taught us nothing more than the "English" side of math (what's a fraction, numerator, real number, etc.). I slept in there and got 99 and 100 averages. When I asked to be placed in Algebra I in 8th grade instead of Pre-algebra, I was denied on the front that I didn't take a "normal" math class my 7th grade, which was through no fault of my own.</p>

<p>I stuck through 8th grade math and Algebra I (instead of Honors Algebra I that was offered to 8th graders, there's just merely a normal Algebra I for 9th graders). I had to take summer school Geometry in order to take Honors Algebra II in 10th grade, while some students who were in the Honors track to begin with struggled with later math classes. It has always been a sore point for me because my GPA is heavily affected because of this (an Honors class is weighted more, and all of my peers were students who were in the Honors track). I'm not sure what the solution could be, but Firebird882G said that parents could petition for their children to be put in an accelerated math class, which I think is a good thing. At my school, I couldn't petition to be let into an accelerated math class, and was forced to stay "on track" unless I was willing to take summer school, which I did.</p>

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<p>In 6th grade, during elementary school (also private) i was in an experimental course with seven or eight students. We played around with graphing calculators and did the first few chapters of Algebra 1. None of us had taken Pre-Algebra. When I went to my 7-12 school, I got placed in Pre-Algebra accelerated (I am almost positive I aced the placement test, but it wasnt a completely comprehensive test). I told them that I should be in Algebra. I was then asked to take the Pre-Algebra final to pass out of that class. This was quite difficult, because I had no idea what mean, median and mode were, since I had never taken Pre Algebra. I got a B-. They determined that a B- was not a high enough score for the accelerated track so they put me in Algebra 1. Another kid from my elementary school did the same thing, and scored one or two percentage points lower than i did. Since i had 100% in the class after the first two weeks, they bumped me up the accelerated. My friend joined me in the accelerated track the next year. I would have been soooooo unhappy in regular math.</p>