The issue of Early Decision and Financial Aid

Parents Forum
21

<p>Again, you have to be a little careful throwing around the word “risky.” The risk is NOT that you will be trapped into paying more than you can afford, because you can control that, by just saying no. There are really two risks: (1) Getting accepted and turning down the acceptance because you don’t like the financial aid offer, but if you knew what other colleges would offer, you would have understood it was a great offer and you should have accepted it. (2) Accepting the offer because you can afford it, but you could have done meaningfully better elsewhere. Those aren’t such terrible risks. If you get accepted ED, but the college comes back with a terrible financial aid proposal because of a family business situation, things would not have been any different at that college had you been accepted RD. So it’s disappointing, but the only thing you have really lost is the chance to apply ED to a different college with better financial aid policies on the issue that affects you.</p>

<p>It’s important to note that things can change depending on the market tier you are in. What I said above about financial aid offers not being different for ED vs. RD acceptees is true for the top tier of colleges (certainly including Duke and Vanderbilt). But it isn’t necessarily true further down the food chain, where colleges are known to offer less competitive financial aid packages to ED acceptees, on the theory that they are less price-sensitive.</p>

22

<p>Our D applied to Vanderbilt ED1 and will be attending in the fall so I can share our experience. Her acceptance notification (online) and letter included a financial aid package. You are allowed to decline the admission based on the financial aid not meeting your personal requirements. I guess the ED application all comes down to doing research and then some trust that the schools do what they say. We toured Duke last year and I believe they said they met 100% of demonstrated need but they included student loans in the package (limited to $5k/year, I think?). Vandy has a no loans policy. Both estimated & actual packages gave us a lower EFC than FASFA. I definitely recommend the Net Price Calculators for each school. Duke’s calculation gave us a higher EFC than Vandy. Vandy’s was pretty close to the actual award so I would trust that as long as you don’t have the odd situations that others have mentioned (self-employed, etc). If you do have a special situation, make a call to the financial aid offices and see if they can give you a more accurate picture. Good luck! They’re both great schools!</p>

23

<p>Vanderbilt and Duke offer good financial aid packages and if you run the NPCs now you should be able to know whether they’re affordable (unless you have one of the “complicated” situations).</p>

24

<p>Thanks DoremomCT. I spoke with Vandy Admissions and Financial Aid and they verified what the NPC said (again, assuming everything I entered was correct). I hope we end up having the same positive experience you’ve had thus far. Now…if we can just get her admitted!</p>

25

<p>Just to revisit this, for those who have gone through the process, what I’m getting is that if you have a relatively simple situation (no divorced parents, no self employment, no business owned) can the NPC be trusted to be pretty accurate? We are trying to decide whether to have D apply ED to Holy Cross in the fall. We have combined income under $100K, are not home owners, are married, do not own a business. The NPC on their website gives me a number I feel we can do. I just need to feel confident that it won’t fluctuate by tens of thousands, I can get that it may not be spot on and could fluctuate a few thousand.</p>

<p>Thanks for any advice!</p>

26

<p>Oh and is there a place to do a sort of practice CSS to get an idea of what it might put as your EFC?</p>

27

<p>Schools’ net price calculators should ask you for the major pieces of information that would affect their financial aid calculation. So, yes, in the absence of complicating factors the NPC should be pretty accurate.</p>

<p>How much certainty do you really need, anyway? The worst thing that can happen is your child applies to Holy Cross, they accept her, they offer her inadequate financial aid, she can’t talk them into doing better, and she has to decline the acceptance. That’s sad, and upsetting, but you won’t have lost anything you ever really had. If your daughter doesn’t apply at all, she guarantees the same bad result for Holy Cross. If she does apply, there’s a chance that’s where she will end up, but there’s also a chance – a good one – that if they accept her the financial aid will work out close to what you expect. To me, that means go for it, even if there’s some possibility of ultimate disappointment. What you are really risking is very low, and the potential reward is high.</p>

<p>There isn’t anywhere to do a practice CSS, because the CSS itself doesn’t calculate an EFC. Different colleges take the information and do completely different things with it. For example, one college may not take IRAs into account at all, at least up to some level, while another may treat them as just another form of college savings. So an IRA’s effect on EFC will be totally different from one college to another.</p>

28

<p>The NPC is a relatively new thing, so it’s difficult to gauge how accurate each school’s calculator is. We had a thread going for a whlle reporting on the estimates vs the actual aid packages but it was not particularly organized or useful in that not that many reports were made.</p>

<p>For those schools that guarantee to meet full need, and that have little or no merit awards, these calculators are supposed to be fairly accurate for non complicated financial situations. </p>

<p>Still, I would not go ED if cost is a big deal issue in the decision in most cases. If the student and family are as sure as could be that a certain school is the first choice school and if the aid package makes it doable, they will go for it, AND if the family has a good grasp on what truly is affordable, where that financial line should be drawn, yes, it may be a great idea. But if the case is such that there are a number of schools that would all be acceptable, all on the list and if the cost would come into the equation if all the aid packages are on the table, ED might not be a good idea. It’s very difficult for most of us to come up with that ultimate figure where we would cut out of the deal. If not experienced in the whole college process, trying to judge, in a vacuum whether the package is a good one representation or not, is tough to do. Schools define need their own way, so two schools both guaranteeing to meet full need can come up with very different packages with huge differences in cost, which can make a big difference when you have need. Some schools have no loans, but work study, another might not have any self help, some might add the PELL as a bonus without cutting their own grants down, some will have larger student contributions. Difficult to negotiate anything without some other offers to leverage.</p>

<p>There is also a momentum to ED which makes it very difficult to say “no” even when it’s not a good idea to take the deal, financially. You invest a lot of emotion in picking that dream school, you’ve got the love of your life looking at you with those puppy dog eyes, and you have to make the decision whether you are going to quash all of these dreams with a “no”, because the aid package is off. Unless it is grossly off most people just take a big swallow and take it , which may not be a good idea. You do a slow burn when you hear about peers with lower test scores and class rank getting much better deals from other schools your student had considered with packages that would make life a lot easier for you. </p>

<p>I don’t think Holy Cross is particularly a generous school in the way they define need. Great school, but one that I would definitely want to compare packages. I would not do it, in this case.</p>

29

<p>You only apply to a school ED if you know you can afford it even without FA and there is no other school you would ever take over it, regardless of what they each would cost.</p>

<p>The mere fact that you are considering ED at two different schools is enough to say you should not apply ED anywhere.</p>

30

<p>As anyone reading the first page of this thread can tell, I at least (and some others, too) think FCCDAD’s advice – and the conventional wisdom it reflects – is just wrong.</p>

<p>There are many colleges where you can make an informed guess about the financial aid a kid is likely to receive if he or she is accepted ED. In addition, as long as no one is losing important other opportunities by applying ED, even if you can’t estimate what the FA award will be, a kid can apply ED and see what is awarded if the kid is accepted. And it is perfectly OK to make a decision to apply to a college ED even if there is some other college the applicant likes almost as much, or even more.</p>

<p>Here’s what I would say: You only apply to a school ED if (a) you would be happy to attend that school as long as it is affordable, (b) you are willing to walk away from it if the financial aid / merit award package does not meet your minimum requirements, and © you are not going to second-guess yourself a lot about losing the opportunity to apply to other schools and to compare their FA awards. You don’t need to think that it’s the only school for you – and it almost certainly isn’t, really – just that it’s a school you like enough to be enthusiastic if you get to go there. It is perfectly OK to make tactical decisions, like an ED in the hand from School A is worth two lottery tickets in the RD bush from Schools B & C, even if straight up, at the same price, you might pick one of them over School A.</p>

31

<p>@FCCDAD‌ I think the opposite:</p>

<p>If you are <em>down to</em> 2 schools that you really love better than the rest, and they are both uber-competitive to get into, ask yourself if there is one you love a little more and are you willing to go ED for it? </p>

<p>It is the kid who still loves 6 schools–or 10 schools-- who should avoid ED. They are not ready to decide yet, and that’s okay. And for them it makes no sense. Better to compare the offers you get in RD, since he/she is willing to go to any of them.</p>

<p>I agree with the Captain’s question whether Holy Cross is a good choice for ED for a kid who needs financial aid. Run the calculators for yourself with your family’s numbers. Compare those numbers to an Ivy like Harvard. Note the size of loans at each.</p>

<p>I think @cptofthehouse‌ nailed the real risk of ED: Your student could walk away with a broken heart if the school he/she gets emotionally attached to doesn’t come through on either financial aid or admissions itself. That in my mind is the truest risk of ED. That emotional rollercoaster to the bottom and your student is trying to keep cheerful and fill out RD apps, either while waiting for the ED results, or just after receiving a rejection/financial rejection. We saw this with some of my son’s friends. Painful to watch. </p>

32

<p>That is why ED can get you out of paying application fees for RD applications, but no one should stop working on the RD applications in November and early December. If the ED goes badly, you want to be able to submit a bunch of other applications without having to think or to focus too much.</p>

33

<p>There was a parent who posted here last year about asking why his son should NOT be applying ED to CMU. He stated the advantages and reasons as to why he wanted to do this. My response to him was that in his case, he and his kid were good to go. They were well informed as to how ED worked; not the quick version, but understood it fully. The student had very good specific reasons why CMU was his first choice school and he really wanted to go there. CMU guarantees to meet full need only to ED applicants–you takes your chances if you apply RD with respect to getting need fully met. They also got a pre application estimate from CMU–their fin aid office will do this, run a more specific NPC if requested, and they did not own a business or have any other funky investment situations at hand. They were NOT looking for the best deal in a school, and were just interested in getting a CMU acceptance for an affordable price. Though they were not 100% certain where that line could be drawn; realistically many of us have trouble naming that magic number, they were will to do what they could without getting into financial trouble to make it work if the student was accepted. They did not care if RPI or Case Western or any other school came up with a better financial package or if the student got a full ride offer, for that matter at another school. The student wanted CMU if at all affordable and the parents were on board with this. The dad posting also seemed to have a good handle on what the family could and would afford. </p>

<p>In that case, great…go for it. Perfect ED candidate with financial need. But that is NOT the usual case. Most parents, students don’t understand the ramifications of having to assess an aid package in a vacuum when it isn’t what one had expected. Where do you draw the line? I can tell you right now, it’s very difficult for me to draw a firm line on a cost. I’m kinda fuzzy about it. If there are other alternatives that line can drop or rise. </p>

<p>A true story. Some years ago, someone I know well, was praying, literally praying that his DD get into HC ED. He would have given his right arm to give his very talented, wonderful daughter the opportunity to go to her first choice school. If there were any way to make it work, he was going to do it And, oh, the joy and celebration when she did get accepted. The fin aid package was not what they had hoped, but they were going to make it work. </p>

<p>Though the DD had rescinded her other applications to schools that were already sent out (only a few) some schools, like our state schools do not seem to drop the apps when so told. Has happened a number of times. Well, when my friend went to get his taxes done, his accountant, told him flat out he was insane and could not afford that college. Then came a successions that can happen, like the roof leaks and needs costly repairs, large tree on property dies and has to be removed, root canal and cap needed to save a tooth, younger sibling needs braces, out of state grandma has a crisis and family asked to pitch in, the car dies,…you all know what I mean. Also some things that were overlooked in terms of expenses when thinking the college bill was going to be affordable crop up. And then DD gets an acceptance to SUNY Binghamton to the Honors College with a small but nice little scholarship , and a bunch of her friends are going there, and she says out of the blue that she’d just as soon go there, and oh, by the way, some classmates are going on this trip she’d so love to join, but it’s more money, and it looks like they are cutting shifts on her summer job and that second job fell through. It’s now getting into spring, and the Big MO as I call it, of ED was over. That emotional must have is gone, now that HC was in the pocket, and then there is that buyer’s remorse and paying the piper factors coming to play too.</p>

<p>So, she reneged on the ED which is a story of its own, but the bottom line is that I am convinced this scenario would be often repeated if families and students could get out of that Big MO ED press, and see other opportunities and costs on the table. Would you really pick HC over, say Fordham, if Fordham gave you one of their big scholarships and HC’s fin aid offer was just barely doable maybe? Or what if that lottery ticket application to Notre Dame or BC panned out with a more generous, less self help award? This is what you miss out on when you do ED. When there is no financial need in the factor, at least you don’t have the money aspect holding you in a vice, but, hey, even then without need, there is a perspective one gains when ALL the cards are on the table. You lose that with ED.</p>

34

<p>@cptofthehouse‌ sometime I’d like to hear the reneg story. Maybe before bedtime… ;)) </p>

35

<p>Does anyone have a sense of whether colleges are likely to award significant merit aid for ED applicants? Need-based aid is not on the table for us, which believe me I know is not a situation to be grousing about, but it doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll be jumping for joy at paying full freight at a private school. If applying ED in our situation is really just code for “here’s a sucker who’s happy to pay sticker price” then it might make more sense to apply RD and see what merit aid is offered at different schools.</p>

36

<p>I haven’t heard anyone who got a significant amount of merit scholarship in ED, like over $20,000 or above. The big scholarships are usually used by the colleges to get the most competitive applicants who may pay more at the other higher ranked schools. Just pay attention to the deadlines of the big merit scholarships. They are usually after Nov. 1. In ED it is possible to get some money in the form of a certain scholarship to meet your need or to make you feel respected. But you should not expect the big prize. Why would the school hand out the prize before all the possible applicants are in the arena?</p>

37

<p>A lot of schools give out merit money after all the apps are on the table, and they pick the students they feel they most need to entice to come. Because no enticement is necessary for those who have committed to ED, what do you think is often done? Now some schools have specifically said that ED students are equally considered for the awards and perhaps an independent committee chooses those best candidates with no consideration for recruitment but frankly, not a good business model. Also, some schools have merit/aid model in giving awards.</p>

38

<p>I agree with @JHS and @Picapole.</p>

<p>The simple truth is that some elite privates give A LOT of weight to being an applicant’s first choice dream school nowadys, so ED acceptance rates can be several times RD acceptance rates for some schools. So while a kid with good stats, grades, and ECs but nothing special (other than having that school as their top choice; their hook, you can say) can get in ED, they likely would not be able to RD. If a kid really values that school over the others and fin aid looks to be reasonable, I say apply ED.</p>

39

<p>And yes, if you want big merit money, ED is not the way to go. But few of those schools where a good student with good stats & grades & ECs but nothing special has a good shot ED but a much smaller shot RD offer those big merit awards.</p>

40

<p>I agree with Purple Titan. And some schools will give EDers more generous aid packages. As I mentioned above, some schools that do not guarantee to meet full need during RD will do so for ED. </p>

<p>However, one should look at some of the accept numbers carefully. There are situations where the ED accepts for borderline students is not so great. The ED acceptees can mainly be athletes, legacies and other special cases. Why accept someone border line during the ED cycle, when one can hold out for better during RD? If you have very high stats, that’s a whole other story, as a school will want to get some of those high numbers guaranteed early in the process. </p>

<p>The problem with ED is when cost is an issue and parents are truly wishy washy about what they can afford and can be pushed to take a deal from all of the momentum that comes with an ED process. It’s tough to say no. I’ve known of a number of parents who did not say no, when they should have done so.</p>