The "Ivy League" Fetish

College Search & Selection
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<p>Why are so many people obsessing over an athletic conference? The status quo imagines the "Ivy League" as some magical realm of wondrous transformation, where anyone who goes in comes out as a rich, sexy celebrity. This is an ugly illusion as widespread as it is wrong. </p>

<p>Many students in these highly competitive atmospheres cannot handle the heavy stress, burning out in disappointment and depression. Surely, the salary of an Ivy League graduate is a few thousand bucks higher than the national average. So what? Of course, acceptance at an elite school will get you respect from your peers and parents for the next few months before college. But is that really going to change your life in the long run?</p>

<p>While many extremely successful people are overrepresented from these institutions of learning, it is their own abilities fueled by a burning passion that drives them to excellence, not a dead sheet of paper that says "Congratulations!" on top. </p>

<p>Furthermore, it begs a more fundamental question - what IS success? </p>

<p>Find success in terms of your true love, not by such superficial measures as money and fame. </p>

<p>A musician choosing Curtis over Princeton,
a physics major choosing MIT over Dartmouth,
an artist choosing RISD over Penn,
a naval officer choosing Annapolis over Brown,
a computer scientist choosing Stanford over Columbia,
a dancer choosing Berkeley over Yale,
should be proud of making an individual decision in the face of other people's sick lust over pedigree.</p>

<p>That said, it is true that the top ranked schools have great educational resources overall, and indeed the brand name recognition can provide a boost for those interested in business and especially politics as future careers, but otherwise, find a culture and environment in which you would belong.</p>

<p>Don't sacrifice four years of your teenage life by grinding SAT vocab lists</p>

<p>Don't be a brainwashed zombie</p>

<p>Don't struggle to fit in with the rest </p>

<p>Don't brag about your alma mater</p>

<p>Don't kill yourself over college admissions</p>

<p>Do keep it real</p>

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<p>This post is full of truth. It’s ridiculous how obsessed people are with the Ivies these days. So many students are fixed on getting the name recognition of the schools that they don’t realize that there are other schools out there that are just as good or even better than the Ivies. And it doesn’t help that a lot of this is because of crazy tiger parents, who want to live vicariously through their children and get bragging rights.</p>

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<p>umm… last time I checked, MIT graduates had the highest salary on average…</p>

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<p>Oh my god. You don’t seem to realize the weight of an Ivy degree. “A few thousand bucks” is not the only difference, dummy. The opportunities, connections, and initiatives you are exposed to are unbelievable. I come from a family of Ivy leaguers, and trust me we can do a lot with it. A lot more then if my family members just all ended up at a state flagship. For the record, I am not bashing state schools. Trust me, nothing wrong with them and some of them are definitely the best institutions of our nation. However, if you are stuck on attempting to decipher the code which makes the Ivy League or have some sort of contempt for the association please, stop. I’ve read way too much about that bs. Accept it for what it is.</p>

<p>From your last few statements it is clear to me that you are one of those “bash everything organized and authoritative because happiness will see me through.” Just stop. Go to college, get a USEFUL degree and begin implementing a successful life with it. It is possible for happiness to be a variant of success. It’s not all about being poor in the name of self-fulfilment. That sort of crap is why we seem to be falling behind as a nation. Sp do study that vocab list, do engage yourself, and do work hard.</p>

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<p>The Ivy League schools do truly have a lot to offer in terms of connections, research opportunities and prestige…but I feel like a lot of people overstate the relevance of attending an Ivy League. Sure, they are definitely some of the top schools in the country, but to hear some people talk, they make it sound like going to anything but an Ivy League is the equivalent of getting a mail order degree or something. I see a lot of people come on here posting “chance” threads or search threads asking for advice about schools, and it looks like they basically pulled the top 20 off of the USNews rankings and decided that these were the best schools for them. There are a ton of schools out there that are every bit as good, if not better than the Ivy Leagues. UChicago, MIT, Caltech and several of the UC’s, to name but a few. Some of the flagship state schools are on comparable levels academically. </p>

<p>Personally, I really don’t have much interest in the Ivies. I’m in a CC right now, with plans to transfer as a physics/math major. The Ivies have never really even caught my interest. If I had my choice of “top” schools to choose from, none of the Ivies would even really be in consideration. UChicago, Caltech, UC Berkeley and MIT would be at the top of my list. I’ll probably end up at UIUC to finish my undergrad though, which I suppose a lot of people do consider a fairly “top” school too in all reality. Ivies though? No thanks.</p>

<p>People put too much stock in rankings. Sure, rankings have some relevance, but just because a school is ranked in the top 5, 10, 20…whatever…does not mean that it’s going to be a good match for YOU. </p>

<p>I get a huge kick out of the “Public Ivy” concept too. People feel like they’re getting a lesser education because they’re at an absolutely top notch academic facility that ISN’T a member of the Ivy League…so they have to brand it as a “Public Ivy.” I don’t get what the big deal is.</p>

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<p>lol people choosing MIT over Dartmouth is not “making an individual decision in the face of other people’s sick lust over pedigree”… MIT has way more prestige/swag</p>

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<p>I’d go along with that. The MIT/Dartmouth comparison was a bad example. MIT is a better school than most of the Ivies, depending on your perspective. A choice between Dartmouth or MIT would be a no brainer for me.</p>

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<p>There are several people on CC who don’t care at all about the Ivy-league (myself included.) In the league, there are very fine universities, but there are throughout the whole U.S. as well.</p>

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<p>Fox, look at them sweet grapes.</p>

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<p>Huh? “Sick lust?” I think you are getting carried away here. </p>

<p>Most of the choices you present here are slam dunks for even most Ivy-obsessed high-schoolers. Stanford over Columbia for CS? MIT over Dartmouth for physics? Naval Academy over Brown for a Naval officer? Gimme a break. Those are obvious choices.</p>

<p>Kids may have some goofy ideas and over-estimations of the value of the Ivy League, but I can’t imagine very many of them who had spent more than 5 minutes thinking about their major that wouldn’t manage to tamp down their sick lust long enough to make those same courageous “individual” choices that you are recommending. </p>

<p>Heck, a lot of kids have the mistaken idea that Stanford and MIT are actually in the Ivy League. Or some who know better include them in what they call the “Ivy+” league. So I don’t think they would regard it as much of an original leap or huge display of individual out-of-the-box thinking to choose them over some mid-level member of the actual Ivy League. In fact most would think they were nuts if they didn’t choose MIT or Stanford in the particular examples given.</p>

<p>Now if you were recommending someone choose Podunk State over Harvard for Economics or Nowhere State Teachers College over Yale for Drama, then we would have reason to talk.</p>

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<p>I agree that many people are way too obsessed with prestige. And I believe that there are a number of other elite colleges and universities that are just as prestigious as the 8 members of the Ivy League. I also don’t believe that a degree from a prestigious school is a guarantee of later success, nor is it a necessary prerequisite for achieving success. That said, it unfortunately is true that prestigious degrees remain almost a necessity for certain things. As one example, look at the undergraduate and law schools for the 9 justices of the US Supreme Court:</p>

<p>Kagan–Princeton and Harvard Law
Sotomayer–Princeton and Yale Law
Alito–Princeton and Yale Law
Roberts–Harvard and Harvard Law
Ginsberg–Cornell and Columbia Law
Thomas–Holy Cross (the lone exception!) and Yale Law
Scalia–Georgetown and Harvard Law
Breyer–Stanford and Harvard Law
Kennedy–Stanford and Harvard Law
Stevens–U Chicago and Northwestern Law</p>

<p>Sadly, its always been this way. So it does make a difference :(</p>

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<p>I’m an Ivy Leaguer. Nice try at an ad hominem attack, though.</p>

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<p>Your values and beliefs suggest that you’re from an old family whose reputation and legacy depends on the Ivy League network. Are your parents bankers, lawyers, or politicans, or from some other background that relies on connections? If that’s the case, then I agree with you 100%.</p>

<p>That’s not what I’m talking about. What I"m trying to point out is that people in other careers such as psychology research, should pay more attention to the quality of undergraduate education they’re getting, and not obsess over prestige. Who cares about the fact that Sigmund Freud was a graduate of the University of Vienna, which doesn’t even rank in the top #50 globally? He was considered a great pioneer in his field because he was successful, not because he’s from an Ivy League school.</p>

<p>When did I say that people should aim to be “poor in the name of self-fulfilment”?
You’re missing the main idea here.
People have their unique places, and if everyone aims to be a neurosurgeon (or some other high-paying job), we’d be left with no teachers, janitors, engineers, construction workers, police officers, artists, bus drivers, cooks, etc. Society would collapse.</p>

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<p>Good job, but not everyone is as smart as you are. </p>

<p>At a meeting I attended recently, someone mentioned that they chose Dartmouth over MIT. One of the parents said, “At least Dartmouth is an Ivy League school.” </p>

<p>I have nothing against Dartmouth, which is a great school by any means, but claiming that it’s better than MIT on the sole basis of the “Ivy League” association is a bit extreme.</p>

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<p>Why are you nitpicking over the single MIT example?
Fine, let’s say a physics major chooses University of Illinois (UIUC) over Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Is that the meaning of your life? To collect more “swag” than other people?</p>

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<p>yes
10char</p>

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<p>I didn’t study as many hours as my peers who got rejected.
I didn’t memorize a single SAT vocab list.
I did score 2400 on the SAT.
I did participate in 3 ECs.
I did what I enjoyed.
I did party hard.
I did get accepted at my top choice school.</p>

<p>If you were my parent, would you have pressured me into staying home, reading and reading and rereading and rereading thousands of obscure words I would never use again in my life, instead of attending, say, Valentine’s Day dances?</p>

<p>You would’ve ruined my high school memories, not to mention personal relationships.</p>

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<p>Haha, very funny.</p>

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<p>Trust me. I am on a similar boat. I have cruised through high school without any effort whatsoever. In fact, I’m known as that kid who sleeps in class yet retains a 4.0. I also got a 36 on my ACT. And when it comes to partying hard…well thats just another thing I’m known for. But the fact is, we are outliers, Veritas. I do not advocate my lifestyle simply to absolve myself of any claims pertaining to arrogance.</p>

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<p>Exactly, Dartmouth is by all means a good school. For some majors, Dartmouth may well be the better choice. In careers such as politics, law etc where your actual undergrad education doesn’t matter as much, the prestige factor and the connections are going to be far more important. In the scientific fields though, the Ivy Leagues have a lot of catching up to do if they want to be comparable to UChicago, Caltech, UC Berkeley, MIT etc.</p>

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<p>Sorry, I missed the secret handshake. I’ll find a more appropriate fable.</p>

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<p>Well said by OP. All petulant arguments aside, He is right. How many time has one read about a grade schooler dreaming of the Ivy league. Madness!</p>

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<p>I use to be that person who didn’t understand what Ivy league really means other than it consists of the most prestigious colleges in the country. This was probably because I was around primitive minded people who only thought about going to great universities and now this idea of “Ivy Leagues” is spreading to other people. After doing much more research and eventually my sister corrected me; all Ivy league is just a sports team! My parents (not educated people) were telling me that since EVERYONE knows that Ivy league means “high prestige” to them and when you put an ivy league school on your job resume, employers might be more impressed with you than someone who went to like a lower ranked school. Honestly, I think this only applies to jobs that have employers who think that people went to a ivy league will be better for the job. Or if you want to do law/ politics or business. Many jobs are looking for experience and skills NOT prestige.</p>

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<p>Sorry to be curt, but the term “Ivy League” is being used very poorly in this thread. Remember, the Ivy League is not a monolith - it’s a set of very disparate schools.</p>

<p>For all functional purposes, students attending Stanford, UChicago, Caltech, MIT, and Duke (and, probably, Northwestern, Hopkins, Williams, etc.) have all the benefits associated with a range of Ivy League schools. </p>

<p>From what I understand, this thread is about the importance of going to a “name” school - whether that school be an Ivy League school or Duke or Stanford. For those saying that, if you want to do engineering, it’s better to go Stanford or MIT than Dartmouth, such a sentence has no value - these are all brand name schools, you just go to the brand name school that best fits your interest. </p>

<p>I don’t believe this thread is about the utility of going to Duke over Brown or Stanford over Princeton, because, on the ground, such distinctions have no meaning. </p>

<p>More broadly speaking, going to top schools for area of interest and appropriateness of fit is an advisable path to take. For committed artists, going to Curtis or RISD makes sense, because these are great schools in those areas. </p>

<p>So, fit and strength in area of focus are paramount concerns. If you go to UIUC or Univ. of Washington to study comp sci, you’ll be just fine. If your dream is top PhD placement in art history, though, Hopkins or Williams may work better.</p>