The eye of the needle gets really quite thin for athletes who are not top D1 revenue sport recruits. With D3 men’s soccer, which is what we went through – you are narrowing the list of schools in terms of where a student is an academic and cultural fit, what is affordable (merit or financial aid), plus the sports component – is your student’s style of play compatible with the team, are they searching his year for his position/range of positions, and out of all the kids they have seen – do they want your kid. For talented but not top national prospects, the list can shrink quickly. There are plenty of schools out there happy to have a kid, but finding the sweet spot, of schools that want the athlete and the athlete wants to be there – takes a lot of work and a little luck.
@nitro11 you should watch blue mountain state that’s the same idealogy the main character Alex had except he was interested in partying not getting a degree.
I think that I agree with @moscott in one respect. If you are a truly elite level athlete in a head count sport, football, basketball, women’s gymnastics, women’s tennis or women’s volleyball, then there is likely more athletic money at the end of the rainbow than academic. Where I disagree is with the actual numbers of kids who are truly “elite”. The number of kids we are talking about at that level is very, very small. I have posted the stats many times before, but generally about 1% of men’s high school basketball players go on to compete in D1. About 2.5% of high school football players do the same. Now, within those numbers, roughly 77% of that 2.5% will be on scholarship in football (85 of the 110 permitted on the roster) and 86% of the 1% in basketball (13 of the 15 permitted on the roster - I think). So we are talking about vanishingly small percentages of kids who will be on a full ride, or for the subset of FCS football schools (about a third of the D1 football schools), an average of a 75% ride. For that small sliver of kids, and leaving aside the immense amount of work the kids have to do on a football or basketball scholarship, the althletic ride is hard to replace with straight academic money.
I say this because I have a kid who did very well academically in high school and who was fortunate to have opportunities to continue with football at a few lower tier FBS and a fair number of FCS schools. Even with the NMSF scholarships out there, he probably had more opportunities to go to college for free or close to it because of his sport than because of his stats. That said, he probably could have replaced an athletic ride with a combination of work and academic scholarships at a number of schools. Whether the kid enjoys his sport or not, the fact remains that in the big sports kids are putting in ungodly hours, day after day. My kid is not playing at a huge football school, but even in the Ivy he estimates he spends 5-6 hours a day, every day, on football during the season (excluding travel) and 2-3 hours a day in the offseason. He also could only work for about a month this summer because of “voluntary” summer work outs. He has friends at huge football schools. None of them come home at all over the summer, and according to my son spend way more time at practice, lifts, meetings, film, captain’s practices, etc. The amount of work these kids do can not be overstated.
It is a whole different thing though to talk about equivalency sports. I have a nephew going through baseball recruiting right now. Good player, plays in a region with a lot of baseball talent, getting lots of mid to upper level D1 interest. But he is not a pitcher so even with the SEC and PAC12 schools who have offered him, the numbers getting thrown around are miniscule relative to the total cost of college. This is especially true if he goes out of state. When you add up the money his parents spent of travel teams and showcase events, there is no way they will ever recoup that cost out of scholarship dollars. On a straight dollar for dollar basis, they would have been far better off hiring tutors and sending him to test prep courses. I suspect that many kids in equivalency sports are in the same boat.
^^sidenote to your interesting post @Ohiodad51 - I sometimes see the UF players walking from the practice facility to the stadium, in the evening when I walk my dog. They usually look worn out (of course they’re probably just coming from practice). It strikes me how much time they put into that sport. I don’t know how they manage their academics, watching how hard my son works on his classes. These guys work incredible hours, just on football.
Older son played fb in high school, and it was fine, but we often think he could have spent that time working on other stuff.
Two really sad comments on the above post. First, if the guys are walking from the facility to the stadium, they probably still have an hour or more of meetings/rehab/film to do. Second, the real sad part is that a lot of those guys are being funnelled into specific “gut” classes for the sole purpose of keeping them eligible. Many will find their eligibility run out and still be years away from a degree. And then they are out on their tuchis. But Florida will still make money.
Well, at UF and other Power 5 football schools, their eligibility may be gone but they can now finish their degrees if they want to. I was at a senior night game for a D1 program last week. There were 27 seniors, some 5th year, but I think most were scheduled to graduate in the spring. On to the Pac 12 championship!
I do think there are opportunities for almost any high school athlete who wants to play in college, assuming they are at least above average in their sport and have reasonable grades. No, the swimmer who is ‘pretty good’ from Missouri can’t expect a full ride at Cal or Stanford, and probably can’t expect a full ride anywhere (better have an Olympic gold medal for that), but if that student would look at D2 schools, and have the grades to pair it with a pretty good merit scholarship, there are good opportunities out there. That student might only be interested in elite D3, and swimming might help him get in. Isn’t it worth the fees the parents spent in club swimming or a summer camp to get in at Middlebury?
I never paid for club, high school, or camps thinking that it would get my daughter a college scholarship, but it worked out to have been a pretty good ROI. I paid for other EC’s too (girl scouts, band, band camp, violin, choir, gymnastics, skating, hockey) that didn’t help them get into college but I think did contribute to their quality of life. I know others who did pay (a lot more than I paid) for sports/coaching/travel teams hoping to get scholarships, and it worked for them too. It may not be a dollar for dollar return, but the kids are at Yale, BC, Georgetown, Virginia and their parents didn’t have to donate a building to get them in. One family I know paid for skiing, lacrosse, and tennis, all at an elite level (major big bucks, not including the condo at Vail or driving the child up and back every week), and their kids chose not to compete in college. I don’t think they have any regrets, because the money was spent for the benefit at the time, not for future ROI.
Stats can be misleading. My S was interested in playing varsity,
partly for fun, partly to make like minded friends, but mainly as a way
to attend a more compeitive school.
Part of ability to attend a more competitve school is admission, and
part is affordability. He is now attending a school for which he was not assured admission
on his grades alone. Grades had to be in range to be recruited, but not above avg for that school.
Now he had other EC that in combination with sports, made hom attractive to this school.
As far as $, as soon as the coaches offered a spot, at this no-athletic-scholarship d3,
they coached kids on how to get more aid and scholarships.
My kids got enough “academic” merit to make the school an option
and no more expensive than less competitve school where accepted.
Students have to trade off their top choices vs those that will pay up for them.
Athletics gave my son both, a merit scholarship at a school he would gladly attend
without the sports.
So to those who talk down the stats, many things in life are long shots,
does not mean discourage trying. Most are rejected from Harvard, nobody says
“dont apply because you wont get in”. Why does that mentality make sense for sports ?
And my son’s “academic” scholarship, will help support the stats,
it is not labeled an athletic scholarship, there is no doubt his EC,
mainly his sport, not just grades, got him that scholarship. And it’s
better anyway, you dont lose merit scholarships unless you dont study.
Not contingent on playing, so no obligation to play, just play if fun.
What more could I have asked for ?
I get that stats can be misleading - however I think at least with soccer there are a whole bunch of travel club parent and coaches that are uninformed/mislead.
According to this site: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/soccer.html (BTW this site has stats for lots of sports)
The most scholarship $ comes from D1 schools. Lets do a little math:
Men - 205 teams - assume approx. 1/4 of those players are freshman admits (this is probably generous since you have red shirt players…) So that means there is approx 50 teams worth of spots up for grabs each year.
Arguably most elite league is the US for HS age player is the US Dev. Academy. http://www.ussoccerda.com/2016-u-15-16-17-18-club-map There are 72 clubs represented in in the U17/U18 age group - so best case there are 72 teams worth of players playing in the best league in the country (likely it is double that because I’d guess most clubs have at least 2 teams in each age group)
If you are a D1 coach why would you look anywhere besides the DA tournaments and players? There are more than enough players…and then some…available. Oh and don’t forget about the international students playing soccer - coaches likely split some time recruiting there too.
YET - there are thousands of club coaches and parents playing in very expensive leagues and training (MRL, ODP, etc) in the hopes of a D1 scholarship. I don’t blame most parents. They are likely uniformed, or are just trying to provide an outlet for their kids passion the best way they know how. But I have encountered way too many coaches and club directors that appear to be purposely misleading kids and parents. Setting expectations way beyond what they can deliver and it makes me angry. These are very good teams, with very good athletes, playing very competitive games. But not playing in DA…so I think the chances of them be recruited are slim.
Do kids get recruited to D1 teams that haven’t go through the DA system? Probably…but I’d say it is much more difficult to get noticed this way. Do they get $$ to play? I’d say probably not, but that’s just my gut.
You do the same thing with girls soccer and the ECNL. The chances are slightly better there, but not by much.
Listen - my kids play club soccer, we spend lots of time and money on it. Do I think it’s worth it - I guess, I keep writing the checks. Do I think it will pay for college? Nope. Do I think my kids will even want to play in college? Maybe. Will my kids pick a college based on it’s soccer team/coach? No way.
Like many others in this thread I preach to my kids grades and test scores come first - that is what will get you into a good college with hopefully some scholarship money.
I know nothing about athletic scholarships but there’s a kid staying with a family that attends our church that is a recruited men’s tennis player from South America. I’ve been told he was offered a full ride to both Baylor and OU but couldn’t start Fall semester because he doesn’t speak any English. He’s staying with this family to increase his English so that he can start in the Spring semester. He just took the TOFEL and didn’t make the minimum requirements. Baylor said they didn’t care that he couldn’t speak English and OU is making “an exception” and letting him start in the Spring. He decided to go to OU. I just can’t fathom how he’s going to pass classes with his limited English ability. The whole thing seems a little fishy to me, is this sort of thing common? Don’t athletes need to maintain some sort of academic standing to play a sport?
@stlarenas Soccer family here too, and I agree that there is a lot of wishful thinking, and uninformed speculation, out there among soccer families. The NCAA D1 equivalency percentage is readily identifiable for Men’s Soccer, so not sure how people think their talented club player player is magically going to get significant athletic money when, by definition, the top 18-19 (out of rosters of 28 or so) could only get 1/2 scholarship, and presumably coaches spread it around, giving more here, giving less or nothing there. Yet, we know a number of male players who approached the college process solely through the lens of getting athletic scholarship, at any cost, and wound up at schools which were not good academic fits for their goals, or finding themselves not recruited anywhere.
At the same time, in defense of non-DA players, there are some regions where playing DA just isn’t an option (like swaths of the midwest). At a tournament, I was surprised to hear a Texas parent say there were handfuls of DA programs available in their area, so much so that it was practically a “pay to play” system where any reasonable competitive club player could find a DA team. Here in Indiana, there is only 1 DA program, in Indy, which is a 2-3 hour drive for players on the north or south side of the state.
Preaching to the choir, but we knew we needed merit aid as we are not eligible for financial aid, so my kid’s list was built with schools where he would get academic merit and matched his academic and EC goals, and then, the soccer was an overlay on that. He got 1/2 tuition merit awards, and loves his school, knowing that, if he is injured, he would be crushed soccer-wise, but still happy to go to that college.
@Midwestmomofboys I’m probably just too cynical. But I just think that D1 coaches only have so much time, $, and energy to devote to recruiting… And they can one stop shop at the DA events with plenty of options. Are there great athletes getting overlooked? Maybe.
IMO way too few coaches preach the above approach to the athletes college search.
@stlarenas I’m sure you are right about D1 recruiting and the low hanging fruit with DA players.
The raw numbers only work if all the DA players want to play D1 in college. Many do not.
@twoinanddone that’s true. But I’d guess there is likely 2 teams per club in each DA age group. So that means nearly half as many D1 spots as DA kids.
I agree that there are some club directors who mislead students and parents about the chances of playing in college, and getting scholarships, for the obvious reason that they want to keep people playing in their clubs and paying fees. And parents of course want their kids to have opportunities and will tend to take an optimistic view of their capabilities.
Even if club programs are trying to sell the possibility of D1 money, recruiting camps are usually pretty honest about a player’s potential. At camps my kid attended, the written evaluations were detailed about skills and prospects. I have to believe that most players, the ones who were not making camp all star team etc., were getting the message that they were not D1 scholarship players. Whether they heard the message is another story.
I really think the problem is the parents of middle schoolers or young high schoolers have no idea about the cost of college or the availability and amount of scholarships. I was one of them and didn’t understand how it worked. Daughter played to play, but some of her friends started committing as sophomores, going to recruiting camps, and even washing out after injuries. I heard ‘scholarship’ but never asked how much. Most of these friends were in a different tax bracket than me, and I don’t think they cared if the scholarships were just a sliver or the whole pie, they were just happy to be going to college.
I didn’t start the scholarship math until my daughter was a senior and I was doing the ‘how to pay for college’ math. I never assumed there’d be any athletic money so was pleased there was any, not disappointed it wasn’t a full ride.
@Midwestmomofboys We haven’t done any recruiting camps. I just assumed they were just glorified fundraisers and not really true recruiting tools. It’s good to know that the camps do provide good honest feedback.
I think @twoinanddone is correct, and the problem is mostly uninformed and unrealistic parents. In my limited experience, most club coaches (jo volleyball, softball, baseball) were very careful in what they said about college. Not unlike college coaches, I heard a lot of fluff that to a sympathetic ear sounded great, but if you thought about what was actually said promised very little.
As an aside, I know bubkis about soccer, but I would be very cautious of assuming that all D1 scholarship players come from well off families on the coasts. Soccer is not a revenue sport, but it is a mature one and I have to believe there are a fair few poor or rural kids playing in D1.
@Ohiodad51 Well I’m in Missouri, and we have DA teams, so my perception of DA isn’t really about wealthy coast kids. But looking at the DA map again it is interesting to think about soccer recruiting in all those states that don’t have any teams playing DA