@stlarenas I’m sure it depends – the school specific camps, which often had additional coaches from other schools, were good on evaluations. My kid did one mega camp run by a company because it was the only way, schedule-wise, to be seen by a specific school he was very interested in. That was a meat market, with no post-camp evaluations, and the worst of the parent conduct talked about here.
@Ohiodad51 If I contributed to the suggestion that D1 players were largely wealthy coasties, I didn’t mean to. I meant to suggest that, while playing DA programs may be the default mechanism for being seen and recruited by D1 coaches, simply being in a DA program is not enough to make one a D1 recruit. And while DA is expensive (usually a few thousand dollars in fees a year, plus travel), DA programs do have scholarships etc. so participation is not necessarily a class thing. My comment was meant to address that playing DA may or may not be necessary, but it is definitely not sufficient.
@3scoutsmom You wrote about a nonEnglish speaking tennis player who was offered a full ride by Baylor. NCAA has rules regarding GPA, TOEFFL scores, and SAT/ACT scores. I don;t know how either Baylor or OU can make an exception to NCAA rules. We knew a guy from South American who took 3 tries to make the minimum 800 SAT, and he spoke English well. Being able to read complicated passages in a foreign language and answer tricky grammar questions is a whole level above just speaking well. I dont know how a player who could not even speak the language could possibly make the minimum score on the SAT unless there are lax standards of SAT testing in his home country. e.g. someone else taking the test for him with his ID. Baylor seems to have the reputation to win at all costs which led to all the scandal with its football program. Both Baylor and OU have tennis teams of mostly foreign players. However if they want to play in the playoffs as both of those teams usually do, player have to make progress towards graduation; the teams have to have minimum academic progress score.
i love all this soccer talk! (we have friends who travel all over every weekend for soccer, & friends who have kids playing NAIA & NCAA 2 & enjoy it. Our kid dropped club this year, but we still like the talk!)
I found this interesting. There’s 206 Div 1 teams with mens soccer. Two are in our midwest town; one has 33% of it’s kids foreign, and the other has 25% foreign. Doesnt that seem like a large percentage? Perhaps that’s because our state has no DA’s?
We know there are stars in our soccer friends’ eyes; and we wish them well. But we’re putting our $ towards test prepping.
Like I said, I know squat about soccer. I know one kid playing in D1. I only know him because he was the kicker on my son’s high school football team and his brother was in the marching band with my daughter. It just seems weird that college coaches would limit themselves to one particular league for recruiting purposes.
I don’t know other sports recruiting so cannot compare soccer recruiting. Developmental Academy programs are the “ultra” level of non-high school play. DA programs have to be approved by US Soccer, and I’ve heard programs must demonstrate success across a range of age levels in the leagues just below DA in order to be approved. Many DA programs are affiliated with MLS teams, though others are “free-standing.” There is also the National League, which I think is run under the auspices of US Youth Soccer, which is different than US Soccer. Broadly, the expectation would be that the most talented players would have out-grown their regular club soccer scene by age 14-15, at least for boys, and so would tryout for DA teams. Or, if their team has been successful at the regional level, they might be promoted to the National League to compete.
It is not the only way to be successful – here in Indiana, a much loved player is Femi Hollinger Janzen, did not play club soccer (I believe) and played high school soccer for his small Mennonite school. He was recruited to play for IU (a top 10 soccer program generally), was very successful, and is now play MLS soccer.
The soccer teams at daughter’s school have a fair number of international players, on both men’s and women’s. In fact, a lot of the athletes are international students.
Recruiting camps for lacrosse are money makers for the coaches and sponsoring companies, but that’s the game that’s played. They are how you get exposure and how the coaches see you since the college season is in the spring and so is the high school season (college coaches can’t go to many high school games to see recruits, but they can spend the entire summer going to the 5 major girls’ tournaments, which often have college camps nearby the week before. There are dozens of coaches at the showcase tournament. The boys have similar tournaments, almost every college has a camp or play days. The complaint isn’t that there are too many showcases but that there aren’t enough spots for all the club teams who want to play. The equipment companies sponsor ‘All American’ teams with region try outs and summer tournaments. $$$$. My biggest complaint was they were all so HOT. Atlanta in June? Hot. Richmond in July? Hot. Florida most any time? Hot.
My son committed to a D3 school in August after attending their summer camp. He was already on their radar. He is an academy player and was chased by a lot of D1 schools. We were looking for the best college that his sport would allow a coaches full support . He will not receive a athletic scholarship, but will get far in life with a degree from this school.Though we wont know for a couple more weeks for sure, we feel he has hit a “home run”! I don’t think he would have been on this school’s radar without the Boys’ Academy showcase.
We are a soccer family that has paid a lot over the years for my daughter to play. She was on ECNL for last 3yrs and now we moved to a local club because of the amount of driving. We thought that was hurting her grades, so we left ECNL to help her get better grades. What no one has said about all the travel and money spent is all the quality time we have spent with our kids. We have traveled coast to coast for soccer and our kids have seen and done somethings. We treat them as family trips. My daughters have also been to a lot of college campus due to the travel. Helps them narrow down where they want to go to college.
Do we think spending all this money and time will get a scholarship for my daughter, NO. Although, what it does it makes family memories together. That years down the line we will talk and laugh about.
I was curious about the DA issues in soccer, so looked at a few D1 teams to see where the kids came from. My nephew is a top 100 DA soccer player, so we’ve been chatting about it a bit. We (not a serious soccer family) thought it was too bad that he didn’t get to play HS sports because he was focused on DA soccer. But from looking at the current D1 rosters, seems like that is the way to go. I am not a fan of this system, but I guess it is the current way men’s soccer works. It reminds me a little of hockey, where a lot of the kids move away from home in high school to play on developmental teams.
My kids were swimmers/runners, which was nice, because it is easy to compare kid’s times and tell how competitive you are. My D was a recruited swimmer (D3 mostly), but was overwhelmed with the time commitment swimming required in college, and is focusing on academics. Fine with me, she got way more money academically than she would have gotten as a swimmer.
Whatever you spend your money on that is geared to getting your child admission and scholarship to college is a risk, whether it is athletic training, SAT tutoring, chemistry tutoring, etc. Your child may or may not excel to the point that they are noticed enough to get the desired outcome. When you spend the money, do it because you want your child to test their limits and strive for something and not for guaranteed results or ROI. Try to find their passion. If you are lucky, this could pay off in more ways than just parental pride. We were very fortunate with one child who loved their sport and would have done it regardless of whether there was a financial payoff at the end. College sports, especially in D1 is like a job and is exhausting. If the student athlete has no passion for their sport then both the athlete and coach may end up miserable. Parents should support but not push. I know this is hard when a family has limited financial resources. We all have to remember that success can happen multiple ways and not just by getting into Harvard at 18 and be patient with the growing up process.
We have a lot of international athletes at our school, and I know some don’t have great command of the English language. D was asked to befriend an athlete from another team. She was having trouble making friends and with classes because of the language. I know how stressed my daughter was that first semester and I can’t imagine how hard it would be if she were doing it in a different language.
The schools aren’t making exceptions to the NCAA rules, they are somehow getting the athletes qualified. Maybe their math scores are high. Maybe the students can read English at an acceptable level, but that doesn’t mean they are able to follow a lecture given at a regular speed or keep up with conversations of a group of students.
I agree with this whole-heartedly, the family experience of the travel, if you can take advantage of it, is an unsung benefit. My DD, a competitive fencer, actually wove her family experiences with travel opportunities into some of her application essays. The essays weren’t about her sport at all, but the travel she was talking about was in large part due to the sport.
The USA Fencing national competition circuit has been described as “the grand tour of second tier cities of America”
ehhh…I’d much rather spend the money to take my family on vacation somewhere interesting and have time to enjoy the city. While traveling for sports can be fun at times, spending weekends in the middle of nowhere USA, in a hotel with a bunch of families we may or may not like, with little time between games to enjoy what little city there is gets old pretty quick.
…yep - I’m a little burned out on competitive youth sports
@stlarenas: I dunno…we’re in our 4th year of traveling the national fencing circuit and I (for the most part) still enjoy the weekends in the “second tier” cities. I do make a point to NOT stay in the “official” hotel anymore…mostly because sometimes I want to get the heck away from fencing, fencers, and fencing parents!
In men’s soccer if you’re not playing DA or international trying to get recruited is very difficult. Even at D2 the number of players who are international is amazing. Take a look at the roster of a school like Lynn. Most players are international and significantly older than the average college athlete. Son plays for a D2 school (not Lynn) and was often the only starting non-international field player. The stories I have heard about the international players seriously brings into question the enforceability of NCAA rules. Many were compensated for playing in their home countries and are represented by agents, who funnel the money they earned playing to them and negotiate transfers to better college teams before before the players request their releases from their current teams. Great players, but really changing the landscape of college soccer.
In our sport(football) we have utilized the family time combining the football camp along with prospective colleges. It has enabled us to have great family time while also being able to experience many of these great cities as well as incorporating campus tours. So he has had an opportunity to use some of the best facilities and had great fun while being coached by the same coaches who coach the college kids. To this point his sport has allowed him/us to travel and play in AT&T stadium Dallas, Reliant stadium Houston, Duke, Cornell, Princeton and Dartmouth. In January he will attend an invite camp in Las Vegas. There are a ton of memories and experiences we as a family will never forget and he has a much greater understanding of the college campuses and coaching staffs.
The first rule is people love to exaggerate and even lie, especially parents. Yes, it’s true! Especially in secondary sports areas such a New England, there are very, very few. In my 30 year career with 500 students each year, I can think of one in Tennis, two in Hockey, a couple for Track that were full, no pay scholarships. I’ve can remember less than a handful of partial scholarships in football, basketball or baseball. I agree that most of the scholarship money for students comes with being an excellent student.
