@twoinanddone, I can see how a player who could read English could still have problems hearing and comprehending it. In the sport of tennis, recently there seems to be more recruits from Europe as most of those players-even the ones from Eastern Europe-seem to be fluent in English-in Europe most kids take 2nd and/or 3rd languages from elementary school. Many European players make the honor roll so coaches can probably do a mix of athletic and merit. However with the South American players, some my son knew could speak English find but others lived with host families in US and had to study a lot to be ready for SAT. Even if a player is good at math, the SAT has plenty of math word problems that could be confusing who learned English as a 2nd language.
For nonrevenue sports, esp for US players, it is very hard to get 50%+ athletic scholarships especially at Power schools with bigger rosters. We know players ranked in top 25 in nation for their class year that got less than 50%. However, there are good packages available for players who can combine athletic, merit, and/or need-based aid. Unfortunately many of the power public universities offer little merit aid or need-based aid to out of state athletes-some do, some dont. We were amazed that many public universities were almost as expensive as private universities with their high out of state tuition, but most privates have more scholarships.We were fortunate that our son had several choices between D1 offers, and one Power school was eliminated mainly due to higher cost and low scholarship $. Son turned down official visits to other Power schools because he knew the likely athletic % would not offset out of state tuition costs. Luckily he liked several midmajor schools he visited that were much more generous with both merit and athletic aid. The MM schools tend to keep smaller rosters so the scholarship $ are spread over fewer players.
I agree with posters that you pay for the training and travel because your son or daughter is passionate about a sport, not for the ROI which is generally poor. However, we also know of good but not great players who were smart who got 50%+ packages at different schools between merit and athletic.
We preached to our children focus on the academics as that will broaden the athletic opportunities. It doesn’t mean a school will want you, but it can certainly ensure you’re not thrown off a recruiting list because you are not academically eligible for that institution. I can only speak through the lens of baseball and women’s gymnastics. Finding a full gymnastics scholarship (and yes parent DO lie about the level of scholarship their children are receiving) was HARD. A lot of work to match where you want to go if you break a leg with where you can make a line up with who wants you either as a scholarship or walk on. Baseball was no different, the process was HARD. The S ended up on an Ivy team but got in on his own as the coach told him there were no more likely letters.
Ultimately, unless you are the outlier elite athlete (your sport’s version of Lebron James), expect that you will fall into the other category. That’s where I was uniformed. I assumed there was a tier system. Really, it’s the outlier athlete and everyone else. And how those scholarships, or even walk ons, are given out can have little rhyme or reason. It could be athletic reasons, you’re not elite but you are really really good and fill a hole they need filled or not. It might be they want you to boost the GPA or because your parent can help the girls get jobs post-college or they simply like you. My advice to any parent who believes they want their children to receive a scholarship is to do the homework about their sport. As many have stated already, the reality is well more will not receive money for college athletics than those who do.
Usually you can’t combine need based aid (from the school) with athletic aid.
Being able to combine merit money with athletic money gave my daughter many more options than she would have had with a tiny slice of a D1 scholarship or just merit money from a D3. Her current coach is thrilled when recruits get a big merit scholarship because it makes the school more affordable. A very similar school in our conference just added women’s lacrosse, and that school throws money at women students and I’m pretty sure the. I told my daughter she would have been going to that school if she were just applying right now.
@crimsonmom2019 I had a competitive gymnast too (quit in 8th grade level 10… Fractured her back and was too scared to return) Those coaches and parents were the beginning of my skepticism (is this a word) of the youth sport process. It just carried over to the competitive soccer my other kids are in.
@stlarenas Yes, I find gym coaches and parents are very uninformed. My gymnast was also a level 10 competitor in the 8th grade and her coach made it seem like it would be so easy to get a scholarship because she consistently placed high within the region. Parents take that information and do not understand just how difficult it is to find a school your child wishes to attend who also wants her. Very lucky it worked out for her. It does seem, however, that it doesn’t matter the sport, it’s simply extremely difficult to get that full ride (or to be a walk on even for that matter).
Except in the 6 headcount sports and a few others with lots of scholarships (women’s rowing, hockey) it is very difficult to get a full athletic scholarship. There just aren’t enough scholarships allowed by the NCAA per team to give out full scholarships to one person on a swim team or a track team. Most are getting much less of an athletic scholarship but the best students are getting merit too (where allowed). Now if you are going to be picky and only want a gymnastic scholarship at a school she actually wants to attend, that’s going to limit the choices! Kidding, but my daughter didn’t have the whole country of colleges to pick from. She needed merit and athletic aid, so found a school that offered both to her. She had several options: higher academic rank/lower team rank, D3 schools with no aid but some merit, lots of money from a lower academic/lower team rank, etc. She went with a new team/new coach/unknown future at a school she liked because the money worked out. Very happy with her choice. She took a risk with the new program and it worked out. She also gets to play 100% of the time, and likes that much more than being a bench player on a higher ranked D1 team.
There is some bitterness when everyone finds out who gets what from the coach – and they DO find out. One girl on our team gets $5k more than everyone else, even the better players (and her father tells everyone that she’s on a ‘full ride’ which we all know isn’t true). I think the coach made a mistake but it was a new team and coach was a little panicked to sign a few players, but then realized she didn’t have that much for everyone. In the coach’s opinion, my daughter gets less because she has merit money and some of the others don’t, so she tries to balance it out. In my opinion, my daughter earned that merit money, all the others had the same opportunity to earn merit money and didn’t. D should get the top athletic money too because she’s one of the top players (and a captain, and cleans up the practice field, and a top student, and her tuition is $2k more per year because she’s in engineering so we need more). The coach thinks she’s being fair by giving those who don’t get as much merit more athletic money, I think D should get what she deserves in athletic money without considering merit money. Sadly, I’m not the one who decides these things, the coach is, and D doesn’t get more.
@twoinanddone You are so spot on. So hard when the kids are picky! lol But picky can still provide a robust list if your academics are in order. My S wanted a top 25 academic ranked school and the opportunity to compete for a starting position on the baseball team at some point. He didn’t really care about how highly ranked they were. He is very happy at his Ivy school. My D was super lucky to get her full gymnastics scholarship at a high academic school that while not a powerhouse, has until very recent years been a good program. She wanted the opportunity to be a part of helping to take it to the next level while having an amazing college experience. Now she just has to maintain another 2 years to get there!
I’m now trying to do my part to inform other parents at my gym about what it really takes to position yourself to have the opportunity for a scholarship, full or otherwise as well as just being a walk on. And it ain’t just being good!
I’d like to add my 2 cents and say that I’m not sure why so many assume that investing money into test prep classes (rather than into sports) will make obtaining an academic scholarship any more likely for a student, than putting money into athletic training will make an athletic scholarship likely. Both endeavors require some natural ability, and most people are average and will have an average performance on the SAT/ACT and on the playing field. Frankly, I know plenty of parents who spent thousands on test prep only to find their kids’ scores failed to increase, or increase enough to make a difference. And I don’t understand why this argument is always framed in terms of either/or. It IS possible for students to pursue BOTH sports and academics at a high level. While it’s very difficult, you don’t have to neglect one for the other. Athletics opened up more doors for my kids than their academics, and their academics were quite good (NMF, lots of honors and AP classes, high GPA, assorted awards, publications, etc.).
Just one additional point to the above: the NCAA scholarship figures are ceilings, not floors. Individual schools choose at what level they want to fund individual programs, so knowing that the NCAA allows 11 equivalency scholarships for a sport doesn’t tell you at what level that sport is funded for your target schools. I know of schools who fund programs at 50% or less of the NCAA numbers, which shrinks the pool of available support even more.
@crimsonmom2019 Very difficult to find the right fit in gymnastics. Though my D was Div 1 level, the schools offering her full, partial and walk-on opportunities were often not a good academic fit - some that were, were not a good coaching or competitive fit. We opted to go full pay Ivy and could not be happier with her choice (well, maybe until we write the check). Best fit for her though and I think not everyone considers that in gymnastics. I too try to coach other parents to look beyond the scholarship and look at all aspects (coach, team, ability to compete, academics, etc.). There are opportunities out there but there are a lot of level 10s who think they will be handed something and some people in our gym who ignored the academic part are finding out the hard way that they may not fit well, academically, at their committed school.
I don’t think the ACT vs. athletic training is an either / or; I just think there are more opportunities for merit vs. athletic. Disclaimer: I am not basing that on any data! It’s just what we’ve experienced having recently gone through the recruitment process.
@Flinnt12 If I could put a bajillion hand claps and “Amens” in response, I would. I think it’s much harder finding the right fit if you want to be a college athlete than a “regular” academic student. You don’t have to worry about anything more than your academic fit. Layering on all of those other factors that you mentioned (which translate for all sports in my opinion) makes it more difficult. And speaking from personal experience, you’ll wince a little at writing that check, but you’ll do it happily because you know your kid is happy.
I think it should also be stated that unless we’re talking about the Robertson at Duke or an equivalent scholarship program somewhere else, students who want academic scholarships (not financial aid, but true academic merit aid) are generally going to have to go down a few levels on the college food chain to get it. My son was offered nice packages at our mediocre state schools, but we felt it was worth it to pay a bit more for an Ivy education. That Harvard eligible kid might need to attend a small, mid-tier LAC instead if he wants a nice merit aid offer. For some that will make sense, for others no. But let’s not pretend that the academic scholarship market is oh so abundant that all a soccer player has to do is take an SAT prep class and he can get some. Let’s also keep in mind that a $15,000 academic merit offer can be very nice, but if the school costs $62,000, mom and dad are still going to have to pay a hefty bill. A full ride football scholarship can look pretty good in comparison.
There have been a lot of thoughtful posts on this subject. We were involved heavily in club soccer and ODP programs as we have moved around the country. Two of my kids played for a nationally ranked club that has a DA program, though they were only 8 and 9 at the time and we did not stay for the Developmental Academy team. My kids did play year-round indoor/outdoor, 3v3, driving 10 or more hours to tournaments and flying maybe 3 times. I pulled them out of soccer shortly before high school to get involved in a less demanding sport. ODP in our new state was located too far from home and the top club they were on wanted to drive too far, too often for tournaments. A couple of kids were signing with DA teams that were located a 3-4 hour drive from our city (apparently they would sometimes practice with a local club). My spouse and I felt that we were stuck on a merry-go-round ride. Signing with a local club in 12-month increments (too long to my mind to commit a youth), spending more than is sensible in terms of fees, travel and tournaments. It was never ending. Being forced to purchase multiple team back packs, athletic suits, multiple uniforms, t-shirts etc was a sign to us that things were getting crazy. A director of coaching at one of our clubs told all the parents that they should be here expecting their kid to earn a sports scholarship (this was huge and excellent club that hosts a regionally known annual high school showcase attended by many coaches, but this club did not have a DA team associated with it). We knew the director of coaching was leading parents on to expect too much. Our kids cried and cried for awhile after we pulled them from soccer (hard to do because clubs demand deposits in the middle of the year in order to keep you on the amusement park ride). Our kids loved the soccer (and we loved parts of it) but we have never looked back. They learned to love track, we do less travel, one child is being recruited by two D1 teams and after contacting two D3 LACs, they are recruiting her too. (though after reading all of above we know not to expect too much $$$ via athletic scholarship in D1 and of course nothing D3). It is sometimes hard to step back, view the situation objectively and hit “reset.” We loved some former soccer teams and we disliked some as well. Some seasons were awesome and some not so much. Some teammates and parents were wonderful and the conduct of others was reprehensible. Some coaches were excellent and some had no ethics. It all depended on the team situation. Recent soccer teammates are getting early offers to decent college teams that are average academic schools. They will get great playing time where they are going and we wish them luck. But very glad we left it all behind. When you are on the merry-go-round you are having fun, but you can’t always see that there are other things for your kid(s) and family to do on weekends than travel for a sport. There are other ways to stay fit athletically as well. After investing all that time and $$$, many kids and parents make claims of “full rides” (many of which are dubious as posters have noted above) and others will choose schools that may not be the best academic fit just in order to play in college. Many will even sit on the bench. To the parents of middle schoolers, I suggest that you reevaluate your child’s enjoyment of their chosen sport on a seasonal (not annual) basis, make sure your kids are doing it for themselves (and not merely to please you) or in expectation of a college scholarship (for which you should by now be viewing with some skepticism if you have been reading this thread).
@Sam-I-Am if I could like your post a million times I would! I envy the courage you had to jump off the Merry-go-round while it was still spinning. It is something that deep down I know we should do (especially each time I go to write another check or book another hotel) but just can’t pull the trigger.
Most students I know who took athletic scholarships did so at schools “a few levels down the college food chain” as well. Lots of D2s and directional D1s.
In at least two cases I know, the students didn’t want to play the sport anymore AND didn’t like the college chosen mainly for the team opportunity so transferred after a year.
I encouraged my D to enjoy her sports and we did do the club thing for one of them, but never at the expense of excelling academically. That served her well.
Coming back to agree with all the parents who say, your kid and your family should be doing this with eyes wide open. Once again, my kid lives and breaths his sport and could not imagine college without competitive sport being part of it. We know it is a big part of what keeps him balanced and happy and so we supported that decision. He knew he wanted a small school experience, we knew we needed merit to make our full pay status do-able. So the list of possible schools, shaped first by academic fit and merit and then by his sport, became less than 10 schools pretty quickly. We feel fortunate that the universe came together so that he can play at what became his top choice school, with merit, but that took a lot of work from him and us, in researching fit and merit and sport. There were a lot of schools that fit two of the three factors, but those had to drop off the list. The idea that there are families out there chasing a piece of the 9. something full scholarships available in D1 Men’s Soccer, and leaving other good options on the table, including academic merit, is just too bad. Sure, if there is a kid who is truly a competitive recruit at top 10 D1 programs, congratulations – that is a phenomenal player. But most of us who have kids who are very very good, but not THAT good, have a lot of other options if you are willing to broaden the focus. Start doing your homework early, be skeptical, and a kid who has a lot to offer campus beyond his/her sport will have a lot of options.
I found more athletic opportunities than merit for my above average student/average athlete. Just like people think every athlete is on a full ride scholarship, many think there are full ride merit awards available for the taking. My daughter’s school gives exactly ONE full ride per year. There is National Merit for the top 1%, but only if the student wants to go to a school that offers NM money. My daughter wasn’t in the 1% for academics, but wasn’t in the top 1% for her sport either. Stanford offers athletic scholarships but few merit ones.
Mix and match, with an open mind, worked best for us.
To get a merit scholarship, a student probably has to be at the 75%ile for SAT/ACT scores and GPA at a school. Of course at the top schools, everyone has high scores, GPAs, and rigorous schedules, and players just get need based aid, but if a school costs $60K a year, I assume a lot of families are paying half price or less with need based aid at heavily endowed schools. I read somewhere that families making $110K paid $30K to go to Ivy schools.Some of my son’s friends used their sport to get in the most selective university as possible. They may have aimed for Ivys but got recruited to top D3s
For those players who dont have the top scores or the desire to play Ivy or top D3, sports can get nonrevenue sports athletes into a selective public or non Ivy private D1 university where their SATs could be a 200-300 below the typical students. e.g. an 1100-1200 SAT student getting in a school where the average is 1300-1400. However, NCAA surveys show that players report that sports take up an average of 32 hours a week for nonrevenue sports and close to 40 a week for basketball and football. My son had some options at some selective public universities, but ultimately he chose a university with more athletic and merit where he was at 50-75%ile academically vs being at 25%ile, Even though athletic departments offer a lot of academic support, I think he didnt want to only have time to study and practice. There are so many factors to consider in choosing a college. Sports has value outside scholarships in helping with admissions, but even if a player can get into a selective school, that does not mean it is the best choice. Each player has to decide what type of college experience he/she wants as far as balancing the academic, athletic, and social aspects. If a player does well athletically and academically high school, he/she will have a lot more choices.
I think the posters on college confidential tend to be parents of players aiming for Ivy, selective D3 etc. However, there are a lot of good options outside the top 100 schools. I use Forbes as a guideline; Forbes ranks around 600 schools.If it is on Forbes, the universities probably have some good programs. My daughter, who was a high school athlete but not at the level to play in college chose a school probably ranked 400-500 on Forbes over a top 100 school that accepted her but did not have her major. She graduated with a 4.0 at her school in her specialized STEM double major, was a sorority president, student ambassador,etc and was accepted to a PhD program with a stipend so her grad school is paid for. A lot of schools parents might dismiss may have honors program that accept only 50-100 students a year in specialized programs.My daughter’s school had faculty from a prestigious D3 school that founded the new program. Even with athletes, some of the coaches of lesser known D1 schools said they would work with players so they could major in anything and still play sports. The Power schools have a lot of business and exercise science majors. If a player chooses a lesser known school, he/she might get a great package of merit and athletic plus the ability to choose any major. D3s have great academics, but because they are smaller, they may have limited majors with the expectation most students will continue on to grad school. The lesser known D1 research universities may offer breadth of majors plus good aid.
I think it’s much harder finding the right fit if you want to be a college athlete than a “regular” academic student. You don’t have to worry about anything more than your academic fit. Layering on all of those other factors that you mentioned (which translate for all sports in my opinion) makes it more difficult. And speaking from personal experience, you’ll wince a little at writing that check, but you’ll do it happily because you know your kid is happy. 