<p>California is a large, large, large state. Both in sheer size and population. It does not compare to small east coast states like Massachusetts or New Jersey. 40% of students from CA means people from very different parts of CA. Sure, you'll meet more people in your area going to Stanford than going to an east coast school, but it's not by as much as you think and it is certainly not any reason to tell someone to go to MIT just because "it's different."</p>
<p>Identity is defined by so much more than location, and thinking someone isn't "new" because of where they live is simply shallow.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you can let a thing like 'more sun' (which I don't even think is true for california) go into a pro's list, you can let 'same old same old' go into a con's list.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Difference is, 'same old same old' is not true.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It does not compare to small east coast states like Massachusetts or New Jersey.
[/quote]
Hence, it's a different experience altogether. How do you know, anyway? I thought you grew up in California. I'm willing to trust someone's opinions who HAS made the move from California to the Northeast.</p>
<p>Also, that's the same argument that I once used for "just cause engineers and scientists have similar academic interests doesn't mean that they dont have special things to offer", not saying it's not a good argument, it is, but experience has told me that though, of course, everyone is different in their own right, like-mindedness in even just a few senses can be quite overpowering on the whole. no one is going to walk onto MIT and not feel the difference between here and Harvard, just like no one is going to move to the east coast from the west and not sense some kind of fundamental change.</p>
<p>EDIT: oh, well, the point was that Stanford will offer an experience characteristic of west coast schools, representative of the west-coaster's way of doing things, however you people do them, while MIT would offer one very different. And that there was value in the difference. I think I agree, do you not agree?</p>
<p>
[quote]
California is a large, large, large state. 40% of students from CA means people from very different parts of CA.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I know. I'm from California. ; )</p>
<p>
[quote]
Identity is defined by so much more than location, and thinking someone isn't "new" because of where they live is simply shallow.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not naive. But wouldn't you say that a person's hometown has a lot to do with that person's identity? That really isn't the point I'm trying to make though. Besides, I'm not just talking about people either... I'm talking about location- society in a different context (west vs. east).</p>
<p>While Norcal (SF area) and Socal (LA area) are very different, they also share a lot together. As pebbles said, MA is a different experience altogether.</p>
<p>I'm not telling anyone to choose MIT over Stanford just for its location. I'm simply making a recommendation. I also recall saying that it's still best to visit both schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A change of scenery does everyone a lot of good.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Definitely.</p>
<p>Fundamental change, exactly. That sense is much stronger moving 3000 miles away from home than moving 30 miles or so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
oh, well, the point was that Stanford will offer an experience characteristic of west coast schools, representative of the west-coaster's way of doing things, however you people do them, while MIT would offer one very different. And that there was value in the difference. I think I agree, do you not agree?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's not like east-coasters are "very different" from west-coasters, as if they live on different planets. Maybe small, generic generalizations on whole populations can be made, but not so for every individual you meet.</p>
<p>But, there is indeed, a redeeming quality in change. What I'm saying is that students shouldn't feel obligated to travel to the other side of the country to experience a change.</p>
<p>But this still doesn't explain the suicide rates. In the 5 year period from 1996-2001, there were 10 suicides. A few of these were by women. During that period, it was twice the undergrad suicide rate of CalTech (which was #2), a place which has always been heavily male. (I don't have the link, but I read this in the Boston Globe.) I realize that this 5 year period represented somewhat of a statistical upswing, but regardless the fact is that MIT had the worst suicide rate for a long time. </p>
<p>BTW, if it could be explained by simply the fact there were more males at MIT, then larger schools would have even higher numbers of suicides. Take U. of Michigan, which has about 20,000 undergrad males, 8 times that of MIT. Do you think there is a 5-year period which had 80 suicides at U. of Michigan? Or even 20? The suicide rate for males in the age range 15-24 is about 17/100,000(<a href="http://www.familyfirstaid.org/suicide.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.familyfirstaid.org/suicide.html</a>) If there were 2,500 males at MIT this would predict 0.4 suicides x 5 years = 2 suicides. In actuality, there were 7 or 8 male suicides and 10 overall in that 5 year period.)</p>
<p>I'm glad things seem to have improved over the past five years, but it's a slap in the face to those who had to live through the suicides to refer to it as an "urban myth". I realize you are trying to sell the school, but perhaps next time some prospective asks about the suicides you could just say that things have changed.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to suggest that any pattern of suicides has anything other than a complex sociological explanation. I just think it's overly simplistic to say "there were a number of suicides at MIT in the 90s, therefore being at MIT causes students to commit suicide." There are other factors at play, one of which is that the distribution of students at MIT during those years was not comparable to the national average distribution.</p>
<p>I wrote a blog entry in 2005 about this topic, and unfortunately many of the sources I used are no longer in their original locations online. One of them which is:
[quote]
There is considerable debate as to whether a school's selectivity increases the likelihood of student suicide. The latest round of the debate is being played out in Cambridge, Mass., where Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) is in the midst of a $27 million wrongful death suit over the death of a troubled sophomore in April 2000. Media reports have painted a portrait of an institution in the midst of a suicide epidemic. In fact, MIT's suicide rate is below the national average if one adjusts figures for the school's overwhelmingly male student body (American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, 2002). Regardless of student status, suicide rates for men continue to be significantly higher than for women, despite the fact that women are more likely to attempt suicide.
<p>At the beginning of this year I was having such a great time at MIT I thought it was the best place in the world. I still do, but with the realization that this might be different for different people. Not everyone's fit for MIT. Same goes for Stanford, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton, etc. So, please, when you're having a discussion about two colleges, don't start from the presumption that the college you're going to or will go to is the best for every single person in the world.</p>
<p>Now, Boston weather and surroundings. I love it. I always enjoy a challenge. Being in a state of slight discomfort isn't bad as long as you eventually go to a state of comfort. If you exercise on a regular basis, you should probably understand this. You feel the burn now, but later you reap the benefits. Eventually you associate that feeling of pain with pleasure and are able to cope with it better.</p>
<p>Also, yes, you do adapt to the cold. Back in October 50 F was really cold for me. Now it's warm. I also got out a lot during the winter. I went running in some pretty darn cold conditions. But if you have the right gear you'll be OK (one pair of tights, shorts, two shirt layers, gloves, and earmuffs did the trick). Finally, there's all that skiing, snowboard, hiking, and camping in the cold you can do around here. I like the cold. I also like the heat. You might not. Just don't tell others that they won't like it.</p>
<p>Suicides are a scary thing but they DID lead to drastic changes to guarantee student mental health. What is important to a student that attends an institution is not how things were 5 or 10 years ago, it's how things are now.</p>
<p>As an alumna ('75) and parent ('07), I will point out that MIT has had a problem off and on with suicides. In the '72-'75 period (when I was an undergrad), there were five suicides--but three of them were graduate students. When you do stats, you have to account for the entire population, which is approximately 7000 students (about 55-60% male), AND for the fact that 18-25 year old males have the highest suicide rate of any population (until you get to men over age 75 or so). </p>
<p>That said, MIT has made enormous progress on mental health issues. Really. </p>
<p>Boston weather is awful, truly (I lived there from '72 to '92, I know about the weather), but MIT lets you leave from mid-Dec until early Feb, thereby missing most of the really awful weather. Except for maybe this year.</p>
<p>MIT has really done a lot to address the suicide problem. There is a lot of academic help if you are having problems academically and you get an entire semester to adjust without having to worry about grades. We have an incredible mental health department. MIT students get at least one holiday per month (even in months that don't have regular holidays). </p>
<p>If you are from a warm place expect that first winter to be long and cold. I would advise investing in long underwear. Seriously though it's part of the experience and if you embrace it and take it in stride it can be really great. I've even been cross country skiing through the street of Cambridge. If you are into the outdoors the MIT Outdoors Club runs a "winter school" during IAP to teach anyone who is interested how to enjoy the winters outdoors.</p>