Some of the most notable coaching changes, at major fencing programs, including at Harvard, Cornell, and at Temple, were made with coaches from other NCAA fencing programs. Sometimes the replacement comes from within where there is a longstanding assistant coach such as at UNC. Ultimately, a couple of powerhouse programs aside, it is not a relatively high-salaried job. Most of these coaches moonlight heavily during the off season. Tough to draw high-level talent from outside the program.
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Yale named Marat Israelian permanent head coach just after 2022 NCAAs. He was an assistant coach that was interim head coach during the 21-22 season.
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Beguinet will be hard to replace.
Will Duke promote from within, or will there be a round of musical chairs from the current roster of head coaches?
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From casual observation of past processes, it would seem that there would be at least a cursory survey of current NCAA fencing coaches at programs lower down on the competitive scale. Think Daria Schneider moving from Cornell to Harvard in the wake of Peter Brand’s demise. There are also former fencers, referees, and even personal coaches who may decide the time is right to do an NCAA gig. Think Jed Dupree’s brief role as assistant coach at Harvard or Ivan Lee head coaching LIU. Obviously Duke has 2 prime candidates in-house: Chris Duclos and Darius Wei. Both of these men have long experience. Wei has been with Duke for a decade or more and my understanding is that he is very well-liked. Duclos has international experience and also owns and runs the Global Fencing Masters online services.
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It’s been quiet on this thread for a while so thought I would revive it by sharing some news. After an almost 1 year process of recruiting, our fencer has committed to fencing at a D1 program starting in 2024. It has been a long road (as others before me have mentioned) as its more a marathon than a sprint. What senior members have been saying throughout this thread is very relevant. Be diligent, organized and levelheaded with expectations.
Here are some basic takeaways from our experience and for those rising Junior year fencers:
- Create a professional looking resume early on and a link to videos. Have a full packet ready to send in the summer before your Junior Year. Be sure to include academic and athletic info. We did a separate sheet for each. You can always keep updating these as info changes.
- Create a new email address for your fencer (and make sure the parent has access to it). The fact is our kids are busy (practice, school work, exams, world cups) they don’t have the bandwidth to continue checking their emails and remembering to stay on top of it. This way you can gently remind them to respond back to a coach if necessary. Also, it’s a one stop shop for email and keeping the emails organized.
- Do your homework – not all schools are the right fit for each fencer. Make a chart that includes what majors they want to study, location, size of team, etc. etc. Some schools will just seem right.
- Cast a wide net. Don’t get hung up on one school. Some schools our fencer liked on paper and later realized it wasn’t a fit and vice versa. Optionality is good.
- Remember ALL communication should come from your fencer. No coaches want to discuss recruiting with a parent. They want a self-sufficient athlete. On that note have your fencer prepare on how to do a zoom or in person interview with a coach. Be prepared with questions and answers you might think they would ask.
- Continue to send info to coaches whenever you have new info or updates. Many times they may not respond, but that isn’t necessarily mean they aren’t interested……they could be busy, slow to respond or just waiting for the right time. This happened to us many times.
- Senior members of this thread are EXTREMELY wise and helpful. Don’t be shy to send a DM to people to ask specific questions.
This is all I can think of for now. Will have some updates coming once we go thru the fall process and final decisions.
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@roseleafmom - Congratulations!!! Very exciting. And thank you for taking the time to share your insights. These are some very helpful tips.
This is so good, Roseleafmom. A real gift to so many looking forward in this process. Congratulations on the reward for your hard work, diligence, and caring.
Congratulations!
I remember seeing in the early thread that one should continue to update all other coaches, even after a verbal commitment? That it’s a mistake to stop recruiting until the official acceptance letter? How should this be handled without brushing the breach of the verbal commitment? Other senior members please comment too. Thanks
Thanks @MDHopefulDad!
As we are still in the process, I think it be best for Senior Members to reply to the question. My fencer felt like they needed to let the other coaches know that they would not be pursuing their offers and will be committing to another school. But I’m sure every school is different so the responses might cater to that Div1 vs. Div3, and NLI school (non-Ivy) vs. Ivy (that gives likely letters). Also the amount of success a coach has of getting the fencer accepted after commitment (assuming pre-reads are completed, etc)
Others who have already been through the process ALL the way to matriculation might have better experience/feedback.
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While our experience is almost 10 years old, some may find it useful, and perhaps there is lesson in perseverance/not giving up for families going thru the process.
At the end of junior year in HS, our fencer was improving, but still unheralded with respect to being recruited to any of the top programs. While our son had written to many of the coaches, few had written back, and none were encouraging. We hoped to get an appointment to meet the coaches at SN, with moderate success. One coach (of a very prestigious program) responded to our fencer’s request for a meeting with a note stating he would not be at SN as he already knew who he was going to recruit, so no need for further correspondence. He wished us luck.
At SN, our fencer had a breakout performance with two podium finishes. In his last bout, it was a semi-final against a national team member (already in college) where our son lost 14-15 in a very exciting match. As this bout was the 2nd to last of the day, all the college coaches were watching, and it was the first time many of these coaches had seen our son fence.
As a consequence, we were fortunate to have meetings with many coaches the next day and we left Ohio with four LL offers and two offers from academically elite D1 programs. It is worth noting that the coach (mentioned above) who told us he had already made his choice, was surprised at SN when his top recruit announced a commitment to another school; this coach called us on our way to the airport to offer our son a LL. The news that the top fencer in our recruitment class committing to a different school than everyone expected really upset the applecart and caused a domino effect within our recruitment class that made all of our son’s unanswered letters/calls to coaches worthwhile.
In those days, verbal commitments made after July 1st were considered binding, subject to official pre-reads that usually occurred in late July/early August. In the weeks following SN, we visited the four LL schools, and everyone wanted a commitment as soon as possible. The coach mentioned above told us we had passed the pre-read and gave us an early August deadline to make a commitment. We learned that while all Ivy’s have an AO representative that handles all the athletic pre-reads, not all of them happen the same day/week during the summer.
Our son’s first choice was a different school and we felt as soon as the official pre-read from that school came thru, we would commit and tell the other programs that we were withdrawing from consideration. In early August, the coach who had given us the deadline called to find out what we were going to do, but our the first-choice school had not done their pre-reads yet as the member of the AO who handled athletic pre-reads was out sick that week. Because of this delay the coach of our first choice could not tell us 100% that we were in before our other offer expired. It was a very stressful situation, but we turned down a top program before we had our first choice completely in hand. The coach who gave us the deadline was not very gracious when we told him of our decision.
Once we had the official pre-read completed (mid August) at our first choice, we made our commitment and told all the schools. The other Ivy coaches told us they already heard (the deadline coach had a big mouth) and had moved on, and the two other D1 programs were very gracious and asked us to let them know if things fell through.
Once the commitment was made, it was suggested the full application be submitted by September 15th, to be part of the 1st wave of LL that are usually sent out on October 1st. Our new coach said it was important to be in the early round of LLs in something went wrong, we would still have time to apply somewhere else EA/ED. We appreciated the belt and suspenders approach.
Obviously our good fortune had a lot to do with the nuances and specifics of our recruiting year, and luck played a major role. However, I guess the lessons learned from all this is that you have to go thru all the motions and even if you don’t get encouragement from the college coaches at the beginning of the process, it is important that they know who you are and to not give up until the process is truly over.
Hope this helps and good luck to all.
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My kid committed shortly after April NAC with knowledge that he would receive preread and if positive receive likely letter upon ED application in September. After committing he did not pursue further recruitment dialog with other coaches. Since he committed to his first choice he hadn’t had as much engagement with the other coaches anyway. At least with Ivy schools our understanding was that the mutual verbal commitment were robust and it didn’t seem prudent to continue recruiting conversations with other schools.
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While I strongly agree with Helmut’s take, particularly with Ivy League recruitment, I would like to speak to the notion of confidentiality when it comes to recruitment.
Everyone reveals their choice as soon as they are reasonably certain of admission. You all know the adage that a true secret is something kept solely to oneself. In more than 15 years as a fencing parent, I have never encountered a true fencing secret. Back in our fencer’s recruitment year, 2 of his closest friends (who were also top recruits) revealed “in confidence” that they had each committed, in writing, to a top DV1 program. This was in AUGUST going into their JUNIOR year of high school! At least within our fencer’s gender/weapon community, we all kind of know who is targeting which schools, who the top dogs are who will get their first choice, who the mid-range fencers are whose super academics will win the day with a top program, and who will hang tight, hoping for that last minute empty slot. The coaches also know. There was not one interview our fencer had during the process at which the coach did not note that it was generally understood that our fencer was heading to a particular school. The coaches (for the most part) respected the process, and refrained from being dismissive in deference to our fencer’s recruitment status, but they knew.
So, my short answer to the question posed by MDHopeful and others is, do what you are comfortable with when it comes to continuing to keep coaches aware of your fencer’s results and other progress. By all means, hedge your bet in the face of an oral commitment not yet solidified by a likely letter or letter of intent. But understand, the word regarding your fencer’s recruitment status is out there somewhere.
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Hi all, I don’t want to derail any of the flow of discussion so not sure if College Confidential allows a direct message but if appropriate, perhaps I can take offline. First, this is a wonderful thread of such insight. Here’s my son’s story and I wanted a quick gauge: we are complete neophytes to Fencing. My son just finished 8th grade and will be a freshman this fall. We have joined a local club and he is been going 2x a week for past 2 months and very much enjoying it. With other 8th graders he is wins almost all bouts and the Coach has said with more work and lessons he will be promoted internally to working with all the highschool and adults and begin regional meets this fall/winter.
My question is the following: are we too late to the game here for my son to progress enough to perhaps think college recruiting is a possibility? That is, let’s say he gets to local meets this fall and winter and shows promise and then gets to Regionals. By sophomore year maybe he has a strong showing at regionals but not sure if it’s a pipe dream to get to Nationals. Is recruiting at a DIII or Ivy possible? I know some schools have Club but I would think that doesn’t have any sway with admissions. What I am asking for is a reality check here and ultimately this is all on my son to want this which early signs are showing he does. Academically, while early, he has consistently been very strong both testing and grades, i.e. top 5%.
Sorry for a potentially total beginner question but wanted to try and have a roadmap of goals or understand if he is totally behind here to even think this is a possibility. Thank you so much in advance!
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Other than totally running out of runway, there is always time to impress college coaches with talent, hard work and, yes, with results. As a high school freshman your son’s path will have to be accelerated and this in turn will put pressure on lessons, training, competitions/results, and finances. Be prepared. The road can turn very steep very quickly. To come to the attention of coaches you will almost certainly have to get to the national level relatively quickly, meaning NAC competitions in your son’s age group, if not also the age division above his. Big regional tournaments can also be a resource, both for experience as well as for possibly having coaches see your son. Remember, while DIII and Ivies recruit, there are no scholarships. These avenues will also require premium academics. Feel free to reach out to me or to other experienced members of this thread. Lots of very smart, very experienced people on this site who will all give sound advice.
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Thank you so much for your quick reply. Very helpful and good to know while condensed, my son could have a shot. I very much appreciate you being available for questions. Thanks again!
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I believe anything is possible.
In addition to the sound advice from @brooklynrye, I think choosing the right coach/club/program can make a big difference.
In our experience, while our son got started in fencing in the 4th grade, his results in the early years were lackluster. His first fencing club was new and more recreational in nature. Our son was enjoying fencing, but was one of the older fencers at this club and one of the only boys. There were not many boys to practice or go to tournaments with. In his freshman year of HS, we went to some NACs and was frustrated with his results, especially since he was considered one of the better fencers at our club.
At the end of freshman year he said the only way he could get better was to fence more boys more often and he wanted to move to a more competitive club. Fortunately for us, there was one in our area, and while it was difficult to make the change, he made it happen.
The new club was highly competitive and regularly trained Olympic and National team members from many countries. There were half a dozen competitive boys and training for NACs and WCs was everyone’s goal. We were lucky to join this club and it was a much more intense environment. It was expected that everyone went to all NACs/JOs/SNs. A month after making the switch, our son placed in the top 32 in a NAC and soon after had a great result at JOs. This is exactly what we were looking for, and even though our son only started to get some better results sophomore year, our momentum and trajectory changed for the better.
The most important aspect of this change was our new coaches were very well known in the sport and frequently rubbed shoulders with the college coaches at NACs, World Cups, and the Olympics. In hindsight, this was the most important aspect of being an a highly competitive club, as our club coaches could have discussion with the college coaches that provided insight that neither my son or I could possibly have gotten on our own.
When my son had his breakout performances at SN before senior year, I think it was a confirmation of what many college coaches had heard but not seen with their own eyes. I wish my son hadn’t waited until the last event at SN to show his potential, but I am glad it happened when it did. Obviously luck is when opportunity meets preparation.
While my son had not met most of the college coaches before that SN, it was nice that they told him they had received all his emails.
I think talent, hard work and dedication is a given to succeed in almost anything, however, having the right coach and club can also be very important, especially when it comes to college recruiting. My son’s recruitment never would have happened if we stayed at the previous club.
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Thank you so much for the color. It’s a small team right now but there seem to be some older boys he hopefully gets promoted to competing against as that seems really important. Very much appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts.
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In addition to what BR and SD wrote, for a kid starting relatively later like yours, it’s my observation that intrinsic strengths, especially athleticism, can make an important difference. A kid with exceptional quickness, or strength, or hand-coordination with timing can see much sooner positive results with dedication, focus, great coaching, and strong sparring partners. This may even be more beneficial if there’s good fit between the weapon and the intrinsic strengths.
Fencing is great because intelligence, creativity, and learned/practiced skills are relatively important compared to athleticism, but the former take time and the later can be underestimated.
Of course, the main thing is the kids got to want to do it for their own reasons to succeed. College recruitment is best never to be the main reason.
Good luck!
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My son also started fencing quite late (14), but he very quickly became the best fencer at his small recreational club, and within a year he was medaling at regional events. After two years he was routinely making top 16 at NACs, but was not doing as well in Seniors and was struggling to make it onto the podium in Juniors. By that point it was clear that he was seriously committed to the sport, so we moved to a different club with a much more competitive program, and a year after that he won his first medal at a Junior NAC. It was almost exactly three years, to the day, from his first fencing lesson to his first NAC medal.
We were a bit clueless about recruiting, although the coach at the new club said that he’d had conversations with a couple of coaches who had been watching him. Similar to SuperDomestique’s son’s experience, mine also ended up in the Finals at Summer Nationals, with lots of coaches watching, and he received several offers, including one from his first choice school, which he accepted.
There were more than a dozen kids at my son’s club who all graduated in the same year, and most of them ended up in NCAA programs, ranging from Cal Tech to Ivies and everything in between. One of his best friends, a D-rated fencer who had never been on any national points list but had top test scores and was Valedictorian of her class, visited quite a few D3 schools, got multiple offers, and ended up at a LAC with top academics and lower-level fencing.
tl;dr — depending on talent, work ethic, and coaching, your son could end up being recruited by a top D1 program despite the late start, but even if he’s not elite level by that point, there are some really good D3 schools who are happy to take lower ranked kids with great academics. And even students on D3 teams that don’t have a shot at the Championships still get all the benefits and camaraderie of being part of a varsity team.
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Thank you for writing this out. Such great info. You never know how things transpire but on the academic front he is at the top so at least he has that going for him. I so appreciate you and everyone else giving color which is all encouraging. I look forward to staying abreast of topics here and if my son continues to show desire and work ethic and then ultimately some decent results as we travel to the meets…who knows. But always great to have a roadmap which is invaluable.
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