Sorry, I don’t want to keep interrupting the current discussion, but I would really appreciate any comments on my new status
try reading the posts before you joined the thread. All the answers have already been written.
I can’t find anything pertaining to my specific question: should I re-email coaches who didn’t reply to me/ coaches who said they couldn’t help with admissions
@fencingdood: I don’t see how it can hurt. Use a subject line like: “T16 @ National Championship” or something that to get their attention.
Hi guys. New to this forum.
I’m currently a sophomore in High School, and I’ve been recently thinking about the road ahead in terms of fencing recruitment, and was hoping to get some insight and possible chancing given my statistics.
For fencing, I recently obtained my C17 during the April Nac Division II competition for sabre. I’m currently qualified for JN, CDT, DI, and DII for SN, and am fully qualified for next years JO’s. My coach is a D1 Ivy Coach.
As for academics, they are not that good. I haven’t taken any standardized test, so I apologize for trying to get some insight this early. I had a terrible freshman year, with a 3.5 weighted, and so far for first semester I have a 3.7 weighted. I am taking all honors in the core classes except for english, and next year will be taking all AP’s and Honors (if thats even relevant.) Hypothetically, if my rating stays the same until junior year, and I slowly bring up my GPA, how far of a reach is D1 D2 or D3?
Schools I’m currently interested in:
UCSD - Sister is attending it next year, and according to their coaches they’re want kids from my club.
UNC - Grade wise at this moment like a reach, but it doesn’t seem like they have a strong saber team (please correct me if i’m uninformed.)
NYU - Reachy academically
Stanford: Reach, but if you exclude freshman year grades, and If I increase my grades junior year and my rating to at least a B, how much of a chance do I have?
I know that it’s a bit early and lacks some information, but I’d really appreciate it if someone can give me some insight and advice.
To add on, I don’t want to give myself or others false hope, but someone from my club got denied from a mediocre school, but was recruited to an ivy because of how good he/she was fencing wise. His/her standardized test score was below average.
Okay, after reading through all 15 pages of this blog (thank you contributors!), I have a question about post SN fencing camps. Just interested in Div 1 Ivy programs. I’ve seen some advertised by Yale and Princeton. Does anyone have any experience with these; are there high level (World Cup level fencers – Junior mostly) there or is it just exposure to these particular cultures and coaches? We are looking for a competitive camp, even international, but some exposure to ivy coaches would be nice too. Would you mind sharing where your kids train to get ready for the next season. Thanks!
Daughter has attended one of the camps you mention…and I think who attends/how strong the training cadre is really depends on what session you go to. She did the pre-national session twice in the past, and many public school kids aren’t even out of school at that time…so there weren’t too many higher-level kids in her weapon. But I do know that at least one national team member attended a later session. I would make a direct inquiry to the host coach about people in your kids’ gender/weapon category before committing to attend. Make sure you’re happy with group s/he’ll train with.
From our experience, it’s not a bad way to check out a campus and see what a coach is like.Often athletes from the host school act as counselors/assistants, so you get that exposure as well…a chance to ask them what their experience has been like. However, unless it’s after July 1 of the kids’ Junior (academic, not fencing) year…I don’t think any recruiting conversations can take place during the camp…but I guess you can make arrangements to talk to a coach before or after the camp onsite. It would just be treated as an unofficial visit.
That said, generally speaking, I would not view camps as a recruiting opportunity per se. Unless your kid is a very late bloomer who has a truly breakout SN as his/her first NAC-level points…the coaches by and large already know who the top fencers in any given weapon/gender type are by the time they are fencing Juniors. Best of luck!
Welcome back, Fencingmom. In my experience, elite competitive fencers continue their regular training regimen with their own coach. If they are unable to do so, there are training programs both here and abroad that can provide the kind of training you seek. I tend to agree with what I think you are sensing; that Ivy League summer programs often carry cache, less because of the level of competition, and more because they are at an Ivy League school with exposure to the particular fencing coaches. IMHO, these camps are fine for intermediate fencers, but if you your child is already fencing DV1 and has a track record of high-level national and international competitions, he/she should really seek out higher level fencers with whom to train. For a start, I would check out the strongest national coaches in your fencer’s weapon and see if they are running summer camps. They may be at the coaches own club, the university at which the coach works, or even at a different club or outside location. Some of these are great!
Thanks BrooklynRye and SevenDad, really very helpful.
I think you’re right BrooklynRye, elite competitive fencers continue training with their own coach in the short off-season/pre-season. And we are happy to do that, just putting out the feelers since we now have sights on recruitment. Daughter is fencing and performing well in Div1, and has track record of high level NAC results as well as international results/ranking and is high on the Junior rolling points. That said, we should probably stick with what’s working! Just thought maybe we should look into other options since recruitment is on the horizon. I like your idea of contacting the strongest national coaches and making an inquiry. It seems many coaches are quite proprietary when it comes to their fencers. I’m not sure current coach would be pleased, even if we did find a suitable program!
We never attended any college fencing camps and were told by many coaches that these post-SN summer camps were mainly for “tourists” (intermediate-level fencers), with very little impact from a recruiting perspective as very few top fencers attend. In this way, fencing camps in general are only as good as the participants who attend. While these summer college camps may not do a lot to improve one’s fencing, they can be a good way to get to know a school and its campus life.
I agree with @brooklynrye that pre-SN, most top fencers are best off training with their own coaches/clubs. That being said, over the course of the year, there are some very competitive camps that are worth attending. These camps tend to be run by the top clubs and sometimes have college coaches in attendance. We went to one of these camps (in the winter) and it was like being at a week-long NAC with lots of top juniors from around the country to compete and socialize with. If you can find camps like this in your weapon, it is definitely worth doing.
After SN in our recruitment year, we visited (unofficially) many of the top schools during the summer. While the summer is not typically the best time to get a sense of the schools, we scheduled our visits when most of the schools were holding their post-SN camps and many of the camp counselors were fencers on that school’s team. Meeting potential future teammates in the format was great and most of the camp counselors shared with us how they made their college choices (most had similar schools to choose from) and helped us understand the differences and nuances of the different programs.
As most of the academically-elite schools want a commitment by August, Official Visits become irrelevant.
Echoing SD’s post above, by far the best training camps my child did outside of his own club, were international training camps that regularly attract top fencers. Depending on your child’s weapon, there will certainly be top camps available both during the season, e.g., over Xmas break, and during the summer.
@fencingmon My kids have attended the Princeton summer camp (pre-Nationals) several times, but only when they were just starting out. It’s a great program for the early to mid level fencers, since they seem to have very intense training sessions. However, the “World Cup level” juniors were not there, although some of the counselors from the varsity fencing team are. Most benefit that my kids got out of a camp was from their club sponsored camps, where they had not only national team members and other highly ranked fencers attend, but also invited European (ie Hungarian) national team members to attend as well. It was at these camps their confidence and fencing skills exponentially improved.
@fencingmom I’ve personally attended the Princeton summer camp, and like what @quiksword said, it’s good for mid-top rated fencers, as its pretty rigorous training. Most people there are competitive fencers, and it might be tough for entry level fencers. It’s 3 sessions of about 2-2.5 hours (don’t remember its been some time) of training each day, so it’s pretty intensive. Personally, I didn’t get too much out of it because my club coach was running it, so in hindsight it wasn’t really a good idea to go to it, but it was generally a good experience, and I made some new friends that I’m still close with (it’s been about 2 years).
@quiksword @arwarw Thanks quiksword and arwarw for your advice, it really helped. I will talk to my coach and see which tournaments I can do. When do you guys think I should contact the coaches of the schools I am interested in?
@superdomestique Haha, how do you know I fence at Zoran Tulum’s fencing club? He’s the owner and top coach at the club, but I’m not good enough at the moment to be taking his lessons yet. I will talk with him about tournaments I can do. What do you mean by a “Rockeyesque college essay”?
@kevfu6789: How many people in Massachusetts can claim they were the fencing coach at Stanford for a number of years?
@kevfu6789 have you seen the movie Rocky? It’s about a boxer who comes out of nowhere to beat the world champion.
I would see your path more akin to Rudy then Rocky. Have you seen that movie? It’s a true story. Rudy transfers in to Notre Dame on hard-fought academic merit, then walks on to the football team. It’s very inspirational.
I wouldn’t waste your time talking to coaches until you can demonstrate through your rating and meaningful tournament results that you can potentially contribute to the roster. Again study the rosters.
I honestly don’t see how your going to get meaningful results at this late stage. Taking a year off to train with a great coach as suggested might be a good first step - but from what I’ve seen at my daughter’s saber club it takes a about year just to get your sea legs, so to speak.
Picked at random here is the High School bio of a Stanford (one of the schools you’re interested) Saber fencer from their web site http://www.gostanford.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9805
"@quiksword @arwarw Thanks quiksword and arwarw for your advice, it really helped. I will talk to my coach and see which tournaments I can do. When do you guys think I should contact the coaches of the schools I am interested in?"
I agree with arwarw’s reply. At this stage in your fencing “career”, only one (1) month of fencing saber is way too earlier to tell anything, since literally you’re still an “embryo” and not even enough time has passed to develop any bad habits yet. I think if you approached any coaches now regarding admission support, and even 6 months from now, you will unlikely get any positive response, most likely no response at all. You may want to get a flavor of how difficult fencing is by competing in one of the regional tournaments, look in askfred.net and search for a nearby ROC, or at least an open tournament with more than 30 fencers. I’m sure even after training for 6 months, you’ll realize how much more you have to learn and train to even be in the top 50% of those events. Coach Zulum has a great club, and as several of the above post recommended, if you train hard, love fencing, after about a year or so you possibly may be “supportable” at some Div 3 schools. But to achieve the level of the bio stat of the Stanford fencer in the above post, it took that person years, likely started fencing before 10 years old.
Based on the recent influx of new posters, a few thoughts:
- Really make sure you read the thread from the beginning as many questions have already been asked and answered. While every situation is unique, there are trends/best practices/accepted wisdom that apply to nearly everyone. And if you're an exception, you probably know that already.
- Don't assume fencing is any different than any other skill sport...it's not like anyone can take it up as a high school junior (or senior!) and waltz his/her way on to a top squad.
- Unless you are at the level where you are in the hunt to make a national team (and possibly not even then?), using the word "mediocre" to describe schools (or fencing programs) that aren't Harvard, Columbia, or Princeton is probably not the right POV to have. Chances are, at least one fencer on that squad would kick your butt in head-to-head competition. And that the academics (depending on major) will also be challenging.