@Rollhigher
The coaches asked for SAT score, school transcript, senior schedule,and school profile but never a SAT subject test score.
However, in case my D would not get a NLI or LL, I thought it would be best to have all the scores and be prepared. Some fencers are admitted to school with strong coach’s recommendation but not a spot, so it might be better to have subject scores in that case.
I agree with Sevendad about preping for tests.
My D(NLI) took SAT chem right after her Ap chem test in May of her Sophomore year and math 2 the following summer. She only had time to take about several practice tests that week. Unless you are looking for a perfect score, I believe that much prep would be enough to get a decent score as long as you like the subject and had good grades for it.
I would concentrate more on school GPA and training, yet having the scores is not bad.
@Rollhigher: One point that I thought of this AM was…if your son is still pursuing a few different options at this stage, there is a chance that one school might say they want them and another school says they don’t care. In which case, he’ll probably still want to take them…right? So better safe than sorry, IMO. Also, as Miniblue77 says, it’s not like you need to get an 800 on the SAT IIs if everything else is in line.
Anyone else watch the semis and finals of Women’s NCAA Championships yesterday? Some great bouts — especially Zuikova’s comeback in WE semi vs. Sirico. Interesting that Princeton managed to snag two of the three individual titles (with all 4 women taking All-American honors) yet is technically out of the running for overall team trophy since they only have 9 fencers competing. Looking forward to following the men’s events this weekend.
If anyone does not have link to live results, here it is:
https://escrimeresults.com/NCAA/ncaa2018.html
@Rollhigher: I agree with @SevenDad that it is better to have them in hand than to be in a situation where they may be asked for and you don’t have them. If your son is taking AP classes, then he should usually be in a good place to take the related SAT 2 subject test without an overly burdensome amount of test prep. And like @Miniblue77, our experience was that it didn’t require significantly more work to take a test related to the current classes, just taking the practice tests a few times, and as your son has demonstrated that he can do well with standardized testing, it should be OK. It seemed that coaches did look at the SAT2s as kind of a “check,” and there could be a question about why he skipped them if he was otherwise a good student who tested well.
Good luck!
@Rollhigher If your son is scoring in the mid1500s on the SAT, he should do well on the Lit and Math subject tests with very little additional prep. You can take three tests in one day, so I would use the June test date for those two plus a third in one of his AP subjects, like Chem, Bio, or USH. The AP class should prepare him well for the subject test, and he could use the 2-3 weeks after the APs, and before the June SAT, to look through a prep book and do a couple of practice tests. (The only one I would caution against is physics, as apparently AP Physics does not correlate very well with the subject test, so extra prep is needed for that one.)
Sort of relevant to this thread: Brandeis coach Bill Shipman is retiring. It’ll be interesting to see who they end up bringing in to replace him: http://www.brandeisjudges.com/sports/mfencing/2017-18/releases/ShipmanRetires
That must be stressful for the fencers who committed to Brandeis, not knowing who the coach will be next year.
Coach Shipman leaves a great legacy and firm infrastructure at Brandeis. Word from inside is that the program will certainly continue and that the university is in the process of hiring a full-time coach. IMHO, Shipman was a pivotal figure in putting Div3 fencing on the map. The beautiful facility built at Brandeis has become a go-to for NCAA Northeast Regionals and even for Ivy League Championships. Brandeis regularly has competitors at NE Regionals who fight hard and with enthusiasm against the very top fencers in the Region and the nation. I wish the program the best of luck in their coach search and hope the school and its program remains a firm, progressive part of NCAA fencing.
Looks like UCSD Head Coach Heidi Runyan is retiring this year as well, after 14 seasons…
http://www.ucsdtritons.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5800&ATCLID=211706110
Add Boston College’s Syd Fadner to the list of coaches who are retiring:
http://bceagles.com/news/2018/4/9/fadner-to-retire-after-27-seasons-at-fencings-helm.aspx
Seems like a relatively high number of vacancies in second-tier* programs going into the off-season. I wonder if these vacancies will be filled with in-house assistant coaches (as in the case of Brown’s Alex Ripa taking over the program when Atillio Tass left) or if new people will step in — assistants from other programs looking for a head coaching gig/club coaches looking to make the transition into NCAA coaching.
*Before anyone gets offended, here’s why I used that term…while all of the programs mentioned have sent individuals to the NCAA Championships in recent years, none (at least in recent history) are contenders for the team championship…so I think “second-tier” is accurate.
And now Nazlymov has announced he’s retiring from OSU after 19 years.
Another retirement from the NCAA fencing ranks. This time a true giant - Vladimir Nazlymov, head fencing coach at OSU for the past two decades.
Interestingly, not a “second-tier” program (*gentle nudge of my dear friend, SevenDad). In that vein, we should keep in mind that, going back 10 years, 20 years, and even heading on to 30 year, 6 teams have dominated NCAA Fencing Championships - Columbia, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Princeton, and St. Johns (add Harvard, if you bleed Crimson, for their 2006 shocker). Not only has one of these teams won every single championship since the inception of coed championships in 1990, but one or more of these same 6 was also the runner up in every single one of those years. I guess the definition of “contenders” can be stretched, but IMHO, it kind of relegates 20 of the 26 DV1 schools to “second-tier” status. Cannot imagine where that leaves those schools among the 20 DV2 & DV3 schools who send 1 or very few representatives to NCAAs.
In any case, we should be careful in pigeon-holing schools at the risk of lumping the schools themselves with their fencing programs. As has often been discussed on this thread, while fencing is important and certainly on the list of criteria, for most, the quality of education and the happiness of one’s child tops the list. To this end, there are stellar schools, super-fantastic schools, including MIT, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, and Northwestern (to name a few perennial top 10s) that have no chance of competing for an NCAA National Championship.
As far as the fencing programs themselves, clearly some are less competitive than others. But this is not a comment on their value, their commitment to the sport, and the enthusiasm of their fencers. I had the personal occasions to speak with fencers from some of these ‘lesser’ programs at regionals and at NCAAs. To a man/woman, all agreed they would not give up their chance to compete, to strive and, yes, to shine, for all of the national championships out there. I think this speaks volumes to love of the sport, and to the truly gifted athletes who balance super-rigorous academics with NCAA training and competition. So onward an upward Incarnate Word, Cleveland State, McKendree, and Lawrence. You make the sport better for all of us!
Mea culpa.
Though I still think it’s fair to say that if the first few coach retirement announcements this season had been at OSU, ND, and Columbia/Princeton…that NCAA-centric fencing folks (and this thread itself) would definitely have been more abuzz.
All of these moves (coupled with a recent discussion on a non-fencing recruitment thread) bring up a great point: How much should a coach matter in someone’s calculus in selecting programs to target? And is a coach’s long tenure at an institution a good thing — does it indicate stability or perhaps, a higher chance that s/he might retire over the 4 years that a prospect will be at a school?
The coach matters if you intend to take lessons from him/her. In particular, if you intend to continue to compete outside of the NCAA, on the national and even international level, there is a need to continue lessons and training with a reputable coach. For those venturing away from home and from their local coach, programs with recognizable coaches in the particular weapon are definitely more attractive. I know that when my son was being recruited and were considering the entire range of opportunities, we definitely prioritized schools with potential top coaches.
With this many openings, it makes me wonder how much, if any, reshuffling of coaches there will be. Will any head coaches from the nth tier be hired by a nth-1 tier program? Will that in turn cause a hiring from the nth+1 tier? Or are college fencing head coaching jobs normally filled from within a program?
My guess is that there are as many paths here as there are programs…Some have staff ready to take over. In the case of a head coach, however, particularly big programs like OSU are looking for more than a “coach”. They are looking for a fundraiser, an expert recruiter, and someone who acts as a liaison with fencing parents. There are some great young coaches at smaller programs, but I think it is unlikely any of these would be inserted as head coach. I think the most likely scenarios are a move by a head fencing coach at another program (this for OSU), an opportunity for an outside top coach to run a DV1 fencing program, or an in-house reorganization.
How do all these head coach retirements affect recruiting?
Boston College Fencing got a marketing person from the athletic department this year and they have a new AD who is an absolute powerhouse. The school itself is changing, getting rid of it’s Honors program - not because they are having trouble filling it, but because so many kids who are being shut out of the Ivies are choosing schools like BC that an honors program is redundant. Kids get a great rigorous education, strong alumni network, beautiful campus, and location. BC may recruit a coach from within or they may just steal someone really fantastic who hopes to build a program to become more than just “second tier”. There are plenty of coaches just waiting for the opportunity to make something their own and build their dream team.
@cleoshort, I echo everything you say about BC. My reservation is the same as I had when Alex Ripa was hired by Brown. No matter the reputation or relative clout of the head coach, he/she can only act effectively with the support of the college administration. BC has never been an aggressive recruiter nor seriously competed for regional (ACC) or national (NCAA) titles. This is to take nothing away from one of the best undergraduate schools in the country! It is solely to point out that BC falls into a category of truly elite educational institutions that does not ultimately support its fencing program to the degree one finds at perennial regional and national competitors. From my perspective, I truly hope they galvanize their program More competition provides more slots for more deserving student-athletes, and enhances the competitive NCAA field for everyone.
I’ll add to @BrooklynRye comments – BC could move into fencing top 10 if the administration supported fencing with athletic scholarships. BC is one of a small number of Div1, non-Ivy schools that doesn’t support fencing with scholarships. BC is outstanding academically and with scholarship support would draw some of the fencers that might otherwise choose to go to other perennial powerhouses that do offer scholarships like Ohio State, Penn State, and Notre Dame, or possibly draw top fencers that might choose a discounted BC with an athletic scholarship over being full pay at an Ivy.