The relative merits of an LL or an NLI have been debated in this thread before. While some contend that the LL is the “gold standard” of recruiting, I have and will continue to push back on that notion. Yes, an NLI is technically a contract between the athlete and the AD (not admissions), but how many coaches — especially at relatively selective/competitive schools — are going to issue an NLI without having a very high level of confidence that the kid is going to be admitted? Fencing is not a money sport, and I think we can all agree that fencers by and large have fairly strong academic profiles…on average MUCH stronger than say basketball or football. If someone knows about an NLI falling through because of academics/admissions, please share.
Additionally, the LL vs. NLI debate assumes that there is not an LL-equivalent process happening at selective D1 non-Ivy schools.
I am not one in the camp of holding either the LL or the NLI above the other. As a practical matter, we target schools, not the manner in which they commit to recruits, and so, take the commitment in whatever form it comes.
However, I will note the following about the LL:
First, these are not solely athletic recruitment instruments. They are generally used by Ivy League schools to reach out to gifted students with a super-high probability of admissions. We personally know students in the sciences and in the fine arts who have received LLs from Ivy League schools.
Second, by the time the LL is issued, all of the academic and financial due diligence has been completed. This includes academic prereads (and any follow-ups), as well as financial aid evaluations (if applicable). So even though the LL is not a binding contract, it denotes an extremely high level of confidence that the candidate will be admitted. Also, the LL is issued only after the candidate has already applied ED/EA. The large majority of top athletic recruits who have verbally committed to an Ivy, apply early, and have already cleared academic reviews.
By contrast, the NLI is basically an agreement between the coach and the athlete. It relates solely to the recruit’s athletic abilities and willingness to commit to a particular school, including a scholarship package. There may, or more likely not, have been an academic preread. In any case, since admission is at least somewhat disconnected from recruitment, there is greater uncertainty should the recruit be on the fence academically. We know (personally) of many cases in which recruits have been borderline academic candidates at DV1 non-Ivy programs. Despite the issuance of an NLI, these students have all been on a form of probation relating to their grades during their senior year of high school. I know of at least a couple of instances in which the NLI was not honored due to academic issues.
Again, one thing that that is rarely mentioned (TBH, I think the schools that do it like to keep it under the radar…the Stanford “pink letter/pink envelope” for example) on the board is that there seems to be a LL-system in place at some non-Ivies that many people aren’t aware of. Supposing this LL-equivalent does exist at some non-Ivy D1s, then IMO, the NLI (and accompanying LL-equivalent) is at least as good as the LL.
Wow, I always thought signing NLI was end all be all. It seems pretty rare for someone to sign it yet get rejected, no? (Unless for something silly like bombing the rest of senior year or getting arrested or something to that effect).
Not intending to scare anyone with our talk about the relative merits of NLI versus LL, and the security one may have in receipt of either. These are certainly the most solid indicators of interest and admissions probability. Just be aware that these are not guarantees.
Look-the NLI and the LL are 99% guarantees. The only real scenarios where they wouldnt be honored are academic issues/“snafus”, behavioral or other problems like a social media issue-- or say a coach leaving. However in those cases of coach turnover, the player is still offered admission but might be told you wont play.
@SevenDad Just to answer the question about how a fencer is supposed to be registered after being part of an university team… At my DD’s school, the coach sent out an email asking all the fencer’s to change their primary club to the university. Since the school is paying for her yearly USFA membership and NACs, I have no complaints
@cashcarti If you go to the following website and look at the left side, there are 6 YouTube videos about NLI. The 4th one explains how a NLI can be null if an athlete doesn’t go through admissions. I believe this does’t happen much since there is a pre-read before the coach decides to give an athlete a NLI. http://www.nationalletter.org/index.html
@Center Perhaps one can say the LL is a 99% guarantee of admissions. However, the NLI, unless it was signed after the admissions committee have granted admissions, is certainly not a strong guarantee of getting admitted to the school. A pre-read is just that, a “pre” read. I’ve been told by the coaches that even after a positive pre-read is given by the admission liaison (not the admission committee), the ultimate decision of admission lies with the final evaluation by the admissions committee. LL is a correspondence from the admissions office (not the coach or the athletic dept) to the student athlete that they have “voted” to admit the athlete. However, NLI really is independent of the admissions office. With a NLI, I guess you can say that there is a 99% chance of the coach recruiting you to their team, but still will need to pass admissions.
@noanswers yes I agree completely and thank you for writing that. Though, it is my understanding and observation that most NLI are signed- and publicized -after admissions has reviewed. Until that-it is just a “verbal commitment”
Wow! so much activity since I took a break after Summer Nats!! I know it’s a little late but I wanted to address @RRRtex 's comment about Junior year. It was rather brutal for my kid, but like many many others he was competing in 3 different divisions + international, taking PSATs and SATs, missing a LOT of school and still growing (3 inches that year) .
Because he’s the cliche strong and silent type, I kinda took the lead on this one and, at the beginning of the year, prepared a pdf list of all the possible competitions that he would need to do, where they were taking place and the dates he would be gone. I sent this to all the teachers, the guidance counselor, the principal and included a note explaining what he was doing. 'If they felt like he was falling behind in any area, they shouldn’t hesitate to reach out, etc etc. I still got a few auto-emails about truancy, but those tapered off after the pre-read transcript requests from universities.
It is a harsh year but looking back there were some funny stories. Finishing math problems on the board in a hallucinatory state due to jet lag. The look on the college counselor’s face when he told her where he was applying (her “and your plan-b?”, him “Penn??”)
and by the way, if you really want to butter up the teachers, I know a kid that brought back little presents after each trip. Time to utilize those personal skills! An added bonus is the teachers felt happy to be included in the process which doesn’t hurt when it comes time for the recommendation letters.
oh, and by the way, I’m still learning stuff from this thread. I didn’t know there was a Collegiate Membership at USAFencing. Thanks for mentioning @saharafrog !
@SevenDad except that now my referee daughter needs the referee add-on fee for safe-sport, etc, so USA Fencing is still finding new and exciting ways of taking our money!
@starwars1: Before I reply to your question, I wanted to ask two questions of my own…1. What do you mean by “recruited”? Do you mean either getting a partial scholarship offer/NLI or being offered a LL? 2. Are you open to Div1 schools outside of the usual suspects?
Scholarship or financial aid is not an issue. Academically solid, with an AI around 225. Just wondering with a weak fencing stat, if there is any chance for coach support to any of the top schools, any div.
