The Only College Fencing Recruiting Thread You Need to Read

It would seem you need to do a bit more posting especially considering the eloquence and insights you provide.

My child is also a rising senior who has competed the past three years. Whereas I came relatively late to this thread, “guru” status notwithstanding, we too were helped by the graciousness of those who came before us. At almost every competition at which my son has attended, from the first to the most recent, some parent or fencer has helped, educated or just said a kind word at the right time. This is an incredible community of smart, funny, and kind people; one in which we feel so grateful to participate.

For purposes of this thread, all should feel welcome, whether by public post or DM to inquire, learn and share their experiences. Those of us who established the thread and act as “gurus” are actually among a host of parents and fencers here who have a wealth of experience which they share openly and eloquently. Each also has their own contacts with coaches and fencing team members. However, I concur that those of us a bit more established on the thread have a lot of contacts and can often reach out to coaches and/or team members for information.

The basis for open communication is anonymity. While it is nice to connect, maybe finding someone on the thread you already know from innumerable NACs, people are more frank about their experiences anonymously. This provides current, fresh insights without the accompanying risks.

As you point out, a team’s culture often shifts even if the coaches remain constant. Interestingly, in my experience, this is often due to one fencer whose force of personality alters the ethos of the team. I have seen this swing both ways, one team swinging to an extreme “alpha” personality, another toning down a historically more “entitled” tone for a bit more class. It’s all in the mix with a bit of perception added.

There is no cap on the potential joy of a college team experience, whatever the Division or club, whatever the individual’s position on the team. There will always be those favored to fence the big tournaments, compete at regionals and ultimately on to the NCAA Championships. But I have seen the unexpected where unheralded fencers get their shot with some taking tremendous advantage of their moment in the spotlight.

It is one of my lone regrets in reviewing this thread that the focus often shifts to the podium and the medal. This skews the experience, both during recruiting as well as in college competition. The big grades and scores support those that are less, often allowing recruitment of fencers who might not otherwise be recruitable. This has been and continues to be true for some of the top recruits including National Champions. In our personal experience, it is also the “academic recruits” who tutor teammates. To take nothing away from their fencing or competitive drive, it is also those fencers who cheer the loudest, show up for every practice, and leave their heart and soul on the strip every time they have an opportunity to compete. There is no serious competitor for a National Championship or other competitive honors not comprised of a successful combination of the more well known and those less known but by no means less important.

Most importantly, NCAA, club and all forms of college fencing are first and foremost about the “team” and coaches weigh this heavily in evaluating recruits. Sometimes the “star” recruit is not a match and can even damage a team. Not that these are passed on often when given the opportunity, but it does happen. Those of high character, whether at the forefront or not are ultimately the bedrock of a successful team.

So all should feel free to share their personal experiences, reach out to those of us with a bit more experience and contacts, and to take advantage of the evolving knowledge base of this thread.

This breaking news from Cambridge is unfortunate, though not unsurprising. I continue to fear that colleges across the country may view non-revenue sports differently in the wake of the “Varsity Blues” scandal. (As far as the revenue sports are concerned, that’s a conversation for another thread…)

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2019/7/10/fencing-coach-dismissed/

The irony in this is that for decades non-revenue sports regularly complained that they were too harshly treated by NCAA regulations intended to target revenue sports. Situations such as Harvard, and I am quite sure others, puts the lie to these complaints, showing that non-revenue sports can play with the big boys when it comes to untoward recruiting practices.

Found it interesting that another article quoted Brand’s lawyer who said the firing was unjust and he was exploring Brand’s legal options. Good luck with that! I would think Harvard has cause to sue Brand given the damage he’s wrought on their fencing program and reputation. The article also said a grand jury has requested information from the local tax assessor on the house, so criminal charges may be forthcoming.

USA Fencing just posted photos from its annual All-Academic Team recognition ceremony, and I want to encourage parents to think strategically about this topic.

To my mind, this is one of the very few things parents need to think about EARLY - if your child qualifies in 9th grade, apply for recognition. Do it again in 10th grade, 11th grade, AND 12th grade. Yes - 12th grade. (Indeed, put a reminder in your calendar today for the next four years.)

My advice has nothing to do with college applications - high school transcripts “speak” far louder than this award - but rather with “resume value” for many years to come. Unless a fencer is on the US Olympic team, prospective employers will probably care more about academic achievement than success on the strip. But a resume that says “USA Fencing All-Academic Team (First Team) - 4 years” is an invitation for interviewers to ask about fencing. And what could be easier / more fun for a job applicant to talk about than fencing?

Now that the July Challenge is over, it’s time to let our kids be kids - unless they’re rising seniors. (Sorry, seniors, you’ll want to spend some time working on ALL of your college essays so that they’re not hanging over your head when school resumes.) Actually, it’s ALWAYS time to let our kids be kids. The craziness surrounding the college selection and application process has stripped a lot of sanity out of child-rearing, and once the days of youth are gone…they’re gone forever.

Will be happy when USFA also posts the All-Academic lists, as those often include students’ grade (freshmen, sophomore, etc…). Most helpful!

Just want to point out to parents who do not have their child on the All-Academic list should not think it is an absolute must “or else” they will not get into the top college fencing programs. I know of many Ivy recruits who were never on the list.

Thanks to all the fencing parents who gave generous advice and shared personal experiences. For a rising junior, when is the best time to send fencing resume and video link to coaches to catch their attention and get their responses, during summer or in the fall?

I’d suggest emailing coaches with interest and fencing & academic resume after SAT or ACT results are available. At least for the academically competitive colleges this is important info for the coach as it helps if they know the candidate is competitive academically. I don’t know or believe video is needed for fencing. The junior national rolling points list is key.

Hi, Trudy. Welcome to the thread! You really should attempt an at least cursory review of the thread as questions about resume-timing and other initial contacts are a recurring topic, particularly in view of the change in NCAA contact rules.
While video is certainly not required (and honestly probably doesn’t mean much at the most competitive programs), I am personally where of a relatively low-rated fencer who parlayed a well-produced “highlight reel” into recruitment at Lafayette. It can’t hurt and you never know.

@helmut? I will ask my D to take your advice to send her resumes out after receiving her test score in the fall, thank you!

@BrooklynRye I have read every post in this CC thread, super helpful! I am also aware of the new NCAA rule for fencing recruiting timeline. I wasn’t sure if coaches would be mostly on vacation during summer. My D was approached by a Div III coach and asked for the video, therefore I assumed that video was needed. Thank you very much for sharing your perspective on the most competitive programs. I will suggest my D to send video link when being requested.

We went to the All-Academic ceremony during the Nationals, and it felt like it was just a way for USFA to get more money out of families. I could barely manage to keep my daughter there during the ceremony, and next year I think we will just pick up the certificate and not attend. The whole part where they are giving the scholarships was way too long - they should have had it as a separate ceremony.

@tigermaman , we did our share of All-Academic ceremonies and they are super-long. However, the potential scholarship monies for the general essay contest as well as from the Connor Porter Memorial are well worth the price of admission. Also, to Empty’s point, listing the US Fencing All-Academic Team on one’s resume’ can be a great jumping off point to discuss fencing, not readily available to those without outstanding rankings and medals.

Apparently the AD at Cal Tech has cut the fencing program. My son has a friend on the team who is very unhappy. :frowning:

Wow — that’s really sad! It’s a little disappointing that there are so few colleges that offer NCAA fencing - especially on the Men’s side. Seems like this would/could be an area that USFA could try to bolster to help grow the sport. Lacrosse used to be a relatively regional sport in the northeast, and it has exploded across the country now.

@BrooklynRye I know, I know…

With the scholarships, myself and another mom agreed that it felt like the selections were not based on essays per se, but the ability of Absolute to use these selections for marketing purposes. CPM scholarship also feels like one of those that my child has no chance of winning. Somehow, the whole experience didn’t make us feel good at all.
We will skip the ceremony next time.

@tigermaman
I’m not sure what you may have heard about how the selection is made, but we have direct knowledge about a scholarship recipient (not from this year) and it was all about the essay. Of course it’s true that there are only a handful of scholarships given out but I have never heard any indication that they are not legitimate.
As to the ceremony … sure, skip it (or bring a book ;-D).

It’s finally over. For our fencer the college experience was well worth all the sacrifice.

We learned a lot, and it is amazing that there were so many things we didn’t think of or know about when the decisions were made…if we only knew then what we know now…

While it is unlikely we would have done anything differently recruiting-wise, it would have been nice know certain considerations going in.

All the programs we considered were very different and what may work for one fencer may not work for others.

Here are some of the things we learned (including where are our perceptions changed over four years):

  1. Small vs large squads. Some of the academically elite programs (Ivies), tend to run smaller squads. While this may seem great (harder to get chosen, but representing right away) but there are practical problems.

With a smaller squad (three fencers/weapon):
A. Fewer fencers to train with; practicing with the same two teammates can make it hard to improve.
B. Harder to enforce team discipline (if I miss practice/curfew/etc., how can you bench me, as we only have three fencers in the weapon?)
C. Harder to take advantage of non-athletic opportunities (semester abroad, trips over winter break)
D. Injury to an individual fencer impacts the whole team more
E. Impact of an individual fencer quitting the team is felt more deeply by squad/team

Obviously, many teams run smaller squads because admissions does not give the coaches the slots required to run a larger program. When we were considering programs, we favored the programs with smaller squads to the exclusion of the large squad programs. While this was largely due to the academic selectivity of the school, I now see the team benefit of larger programs.

I remember the Stanford coach made the very realistic admission that Stanford students have so many opportunities once they matriculate, so sometimes it is hard to only focus on fencing. When our family going thru the recruiting process, I wondered why Stanford had so many fencers in our weapon; I now know why…As I have said before, as a parent, I really enjoyed Coach Lisa’s approach to the athletic/academic balance.

Practically speaking, smaller squads can be more of a limitation than a strength.

  1. Summer camps. During our son’s recruiting season, we enjoyed that the top college programs did not require attendance at summer camps for the higher-level HS fencers and that all the evaluation was done at NACs and SN. I used to scoff at the summer camp requirement in other sports (like lax and soccer), thinking it was a way for coaches and schools to line their pockets at family’s expense. I no longer feel this way.

For the sake of team unity and longevity, it is important for college coaches not only to evaluate potential recruits on the fencing abilities/accomplishments, but also on their teammate potential, personal character, and dedication to the team and the sport overall. Especially with smaller programs, top level recruits who quit the team, miss practices/meetings, and/or otherwise behave in a selfish manner can really disrupt team chemistry/momentum.

A week-long camp, where coaches can not only see how well someone fences, but how that fencer interacts with their peers, coaches and training staff is invaluable. Willingness to learn from others, teach those with less experience, accept criticism, etc. — all with an encouraging work ethic — are qualities that take time to be properly observed.

I remember when our club coach contacted the college coaches on our behalf after HS junior year, he kept emphasizing the fact that, despite the Olympic/International/National team members that pass thru the doors of our club, our son “makes the room better” with his willingness to fence anyone, regardless of resume or temperament, and worked hard, even when no one was watching. This seemed to be something the college coaches really responded to. Four years can be a long time and the vibe in the fencing room needs to be great.

Same goes for the fencer evaluating the college program/coach. A camp can be a great way to experience if the fencer enjoys the campus/fencing facility/head coach/weapons coach.

While the scheduling of an annual evaluative camp may be problematic, it would be extremely helpful in putting together college fencing teams.

  1. Practice times. While this was not a problem at our son’s college program, we had heard that it was not a safe assumption that all teams practice in the afternoon after classes (4pm to 6pm). Some programs may emphasize that athletes at their schools get priority over the general student population in choosing classes; sometimes this is code for practice and classes can conflict but the school has ways to help to minimize these problems.

It is possible that things have changed, but it is always worth asking in case your fencer is not a morning person.

I write all this, not because I have any complaints about our son’s college fencing experience, but because they were issues we were unaware of when we were going thru the recruitment process (we didn’t know what we didn’t know). Overall our family’s fencing experience was positive, and despite having younger children who are also athletic, none are following in their brother’s fencing footsteps. So sharing the wisdom of our fencing-specific experience is all that is left.

With that being said, I believe this post concludes all I have left to share with this wonderful thread. To the degree anyone has questions on specific situations or circumstances, they are welcome to PM me. In the meantime, I am sure @sevendad and @brooklynrye will carry on in the wonderfully encouraging manner as has been their practice while I join @sherpa as an emeritus member of this community.

@superdomestique
Gratitude for all of your sharing these years. Valuable advice for my son and others.

Aside from expressing some regret that my old friend is at least semi-retiring from active participation of the thread he has so lovingly and intelligently nurtured, I will add a couple of side notes.

“We learned a lot….” Indeed, we did and continue to do so. This starts with those who taught us and continues with those to whom we pay it forward. This is the most critical aspect of the fencing community and one which, in my mind, makes this group of parents and athletes incredibly unique. In some ways, this thread is the embodiment of this concept. We are particularly grateful for those who return, to share their experiences and to support the next generation of would-be recruits and NCAA bound student-athletes.

“While it is unlikely….” I have spoken to very few parents of recruited athletes or the athletes themselves who have strong regrets about their choice. There are and will always be some. That said, very few if any enter the process or the succeeding NCAA competitive world knowing everything. Sharing thoughts about the things that surprised us or that we hope can be changed as SD has done is very important to new recruits.

“Small vs large squads…” In addition to the extremely valid points made by SD, it should be added that for those fencers continuing to compete internationally there will often be conflicts between the NCAA and FIE schedules. A team with greater depth can afford to have a top fencer miss NCAA tournaments. Not so easy if the fencer is 1 of a 3-man weapon’s squad. Another factor in considering this is location. If one is at a school with limited geographic access to regular outside competition, the team is the primary source of practice and training. This is one of the reasons why “big box” schools such as ND, OSU & PSU maintain such large teams. On the other hand, if you are at NYU, Columbia or other large metropolitan area schools, there are a host of training and competition resources nearby.

Whereas I agree in principle to the concept of summer camps, I think that with, few exceptions, coaches recruit the best possible recruit assuming academic eligibility. There are and have been fencers notorious for acting out and generally bringing a ‘wild card’ element to teams. However, if they are top ranked, perhaps Olympic-bound fencers, 9 out of 10 teams will vie for their services. This said, it may well be the next level of fencers who are critical to team morale and who will be the foundation of a well-organized, cohesive team. It is these fencers, not shoo-in recruits, where I think summer camps can be mutually beneficial.

College practices run the gamut. Time is often the least of the challenges faced in stocking these time slots. Academic commitments, outside training and competition, and personal matters often impact attendance. By all means ask about practice schedules but be aware these are often subject to change and may not be well-attended. However, practice and training are often what one puts into them. Fencers should attend as often as possible, train hard and continue to learn and to grow with teammates.

Finally, in brief tribute to my friend, I sum up by citing his history of eloquent, intelligent, and insightful posts. One cannot find a better mentor or friend in understanding and pursuing NCAA recruitment. I truly hope SD will never be too far from this thread.