I hope everyone is staying well and healthy in these crazy times. I have a high school junior who has been communicating with a bunch of college coaches before the whole quarantine started, and we have been emailing coaches now as well. A few colleges that she’s interested in never responded. One top school she corresponded with and told her they won’t be recruiting her (predictable, but good to have that answer, and the coach was quite nice about it). Should we keep emailing even after a whole bunch of emails we never heard back? Should we be asking to talk on the phone or it doesn’t matter? Couple of schools have her on their radar, which is nice. The harder part is trying to get her to cast a wider net with schools…
I think that these questions are perfect for someone like @gtsamd to respond to. What you describe, including a lack of responses from some coaches, is typical in normal years. One can only imagine how the pandemic has affected these coaches, both professionally and personally. They probably won’t talk on the phone, but you may vary your repeat virtual contacts, perhaps by including video footage and/or updated information about your student’s fencing and/or academics. IMHO, I would keep trying, on a reasonable basis…
Hi @tigermaman. Suggest to revisit the list of schools you guys are targeting. Check that your D’s fencing rating more or less matches with the profile of the school’s fencing team. For us we pretty much eliminated schools with Olympic/ World level fencers and ended up targeting mainly Div 3 schools.
Then suggest to review your Fencing resume and make sure they have all the info for coaches to scan and review. In my D’s case, in the 1-pager we included basic info (weapon, height, weight, etc.), current GPA, SAT score (she managed to take one just before all the cancellations), key Fencing results including Poule results and a link to a Highlight video. My D made and edited one herself lasting around 5 minutes. We think this helped as some coaches requested for all the detailed matches after watching the highlight video.
I think as long as your D’s fencing and grades/ test scores are within range of the coaches and they have a slot they will likely respond back - Div 3 schools for us. Though there were Div 3 that we expected to respond but nothing so far. We suspect they have no slot for my D’s weapon next year - based on the list of fencers in their websites. But there were also Div 1 “reach” schools for us that unexpectedly responded! (these are outside of the Top 10 Div 1 Fencing NCAA schools). So you’ll never know. You might get some surprises. As BrooklynRye says, keep trying and contact them by sending updates, etc. Good luck and Be safe!
Btw, we did get a rejection too. After sending out our blast emails, one or two weeks after my D thought she’d try sending to one of the top D1 school. Because why not - you never know. Then she got a rejection letter - twice! Lols Funny because 1st letter was addressed as: “Dear xxx” but it’s not my daughter’s name. So coach sent another note saying sorry for the oversight but she is still rejected and wished her luck in her search. At least he responded.
There are still a number of schools that did not respond to us - mostly “reach” D1 schools which is fine since those that responded are matches for us.
@gtsamd, thank you, we will keep trying. Some of the schools where we thought she would fit never responded, some did, hopefully, she can find a place where she will be happy - fencing and academics wise. I wish she would look at more Div 3 schools, but she’s saying that they would be her safety, so she doesn’t need to contact them now anyway, as they will be happy to have her . She may be right, but I think establishing a relationship early is only beneficial. As all of you parents of teens know, they know everything!
@lovesfencing
Top 10 is determined by multiple coaches polls throughout the season. There are a set of coaches that vote on top 10 based current season results. These poll results are posted in two places:
On twitter by user CF360Updates (googling “collegefencing360 twitter” will get you there). You’ll need to dig through the twitter feed to find them but if you dig deep enough you can also find previous year’s results.
The standings at the end of this year’s shortened season (no NCAA championship event) are:
1 Columbia
2 Princeton
3 Notre Dame
4 Ohio St
5 Temple
6 Penn St
7 Penn
8 Northwestern
9 Harvard
10 Yale
Other schools that are top 10 contenders that have been in the top 10 in the last couple of years include Duke and St. Johns – and perhaps one or two others.
Since the NCAA Championship was cancelled, “All-American honors were based on each fencer’s overall body of work through the season competitions and NCAA Regionals.” Instead of the usual (Places 1-4 = 1st team, 5-8 = 2nd; 9-12 = 3rd), they awarded eight each 1st team, 2nd team, and Honorable Mention. The full list is here: https://www.usfca.org/index.php/college/awards
One more question: do you think it’s helpful when a club coach reaches out to the college coach about a particular fencer? A club coach, particularly the one that a student worked with for years, may have some helpful details about his fencer that otherwise may not come through on video, resume, or face-to-face meetings. Thoughts on this? Thanks.
Depends on the coach and the nature of his or her connection to the college coach. Some personal coaches are well connected and very experienced in representing their fencers to college coaches. Others are not as connected and/or not as fluid in this process. This is a personal assessment that also includes your and your student’s comfort level with having your coach aid in this process.
Note that the list of All-Regionals is a new one. Have to believe this is a further attempt at easing the blow of canceled NCAA Championships and as a shout-out to a broader group of disappointed athletes.
@tigermaman It certainly would be helpful if the club coach knows the college coach well. It would also be very helpful if the club coach is someone very well known and respected in the fencing world. Fortunately for our DS, the college and club coach mutually knew each other very well, not to mention a history many of our club’s fencers being recruited by the colleges we were interested in.
It would be best to ask your club coach if he/she would be happy to speak with the college coaches. If they have a relationship with the college coach, I’m sure they would be more than happy to speak with them, it certainly cannot hurt. When DS sent the initial emails out to his top choice schools, seems many of the college coaches already did their initial due diligence by reaching out to his club coach, before they sent a reply.
@justverycurious thanks! Our club coach has been around the block for a good number of years and knows a lot of people, but, frankly, I am not sure if he knows all of the coaches of schools that we are interested in and has relationships with them. He’s very willing to help and reach out. He himself just went through college recruiting process with his own daughter last year (they had a different list of target schools though). I thought that even if the coaches don’t know each other well, a perspective from a coach that knows her well and why she would be a great addition to the team is better than not getting it… that was my thinking.
@tigermaman From our experience with the college coaches, one of the most important thing they wanted to know is how serious DS was about fencing in college. That was the first question our club coach told us he was asked by the college coach. Second, is how well DS will fit in with his team. I’m sure many college coaches have a story or two about a recruit who quit early once starting college. They also take the recommendations of their fencers seriously about potential recruits. Many college fencers already know from years of tournaments many of the high school fencers. If he/she is someone with poor sportsmanship, the coaches will already know. Even though his fencing skills may not be superb, he wanted someone who is a going to be a great team player.
@justverycurious thanks, makes sense. We are definitely also working through team members of teams that my daughter wants to join - luckily, she knows a few from years of competing together. For our #1 choice, it seems like the coaches are looking at my daughter seriously, but she’s not their #1 pick at the moment. Hopefully, everything will fall into place for her later on in the recruiting season. She wanted to be committed by now, but honestly, given her results (between 60 and 80 on the JPS in her weapon), pretty good grades from a very competitive and tough suburban HS, and the SATs that are very good, but could be improved slightly (just the English portion) I didn’t think she had any chance of being the #1 recruit, but a decent 2nd choice . She’s getting frustrated by hearing about her friends getting commitments from top schools by now, and it’s hard to keep her grounded and working through the process with patience. Especially now, who knows how things will change for college athletes?
@justverycurious - Good to see you back and especially glad to hear that your DS had success with the recruiting process! Sharing your experiences and results are invaluable to the thread. All you say is accurate. I especially like your advice regarding peer reviews. There is no question that this can be a critical piece of the recruitment puzzle. There are teams where it is a matter of protocol for the coach to provide the applicable squad with possible recruits to get feedback from the current team. Commitment is also a great measuring stick. I have spoken with coaches who say that their assessment of a potential recruits long term commitment is critical to building teams going forward. Some even have devices they use to get a sense of this. The personal coach piece is a bit more hit or miss in my experience. Some coaches, while well known and respected, are viewed as conduits to certain schools. This can create a conflict between the recruit’s stated priorities versus the track record of the personal coach in directing recruits to a particular school. Others, equally well known, are abrasive or even unknowledgeable about the process. These coaches can cause more harm than good. Some simply have no particular contacts or recruitment facility. So my advice in this area is to assess carefully.
Continued thanks to everyone for keeping this thread so active and useful! I am hoping that someone can provide some insight into a topic that I have had a hard time finding information about. My DS is a junior in HS and low on the JNPL but has had some interest from some academically strong Div III coaches via email. However, he has been doing research while on lockdown and for a number of non-fencing reasons, is most interested in a few schools that don’t have an NCAA men’s team but do have women’s teams (and therefore seem to have very competitive men’s club teams). To him, it is perfect - a school he wants for academic reasons AND a club team that has a competition level similar to the Div III’s. My question is, do schools with strong club teams care at all about how they source fencers or is it just random? I know there is no formal recruiting for club sports, but do admissions offices at schools that seem to have strong club fencing every year purposefully bring in good male fencers to fill these competitive club teams? I ask because assuming he makes it far enough to get support from a Div III coach, he’ll likely need to apply there ED. The alternative would be to apply to one of those academically strong club schools ED and hope he gets in without any support. I guess it would be helpful in making the decision if he knew whether the traditionally strong college club teams are that way because admissions officers help them during the application process. Thanks to anyone that may know about this very esoteric topic!
I don’t think AOs bring in fencers to fill competitive club teams, though I do think fencing is a unique and interesting EC that can help to round out an application.
I only know one fencer who was in the middle of the points list and did not get picked up as a recruit. Smart kid who then applied to a school with a club team, got in and now participates on that club team, but fencing played no role other than an EC on the application to my knowledge. Of course, there’s always the possibility that this fencer was accepted as fodder for the club team – but like any admissions decision, it’s not possible to know why one is rejected or accepted!
This is the classic bird in the hand situation – Div 3 dedicated slot or better fit school and no slot. I guess the question here is how much better fit is the school with club fencing? I’d say if fencing is not something your son is excited to pursue for 4 years as a recruit (it’s like a job), then he’s better off using his fencing as an EC to try to secure a school that’s a better fit.
Before COVID-19 lockdown, many parents were present when their fencers had interviews with coaches. Now interviews have been moved to online platforms such as Zoom. Should parents participate in such interviews as well, or not? Thanks!
. She may be right, but I think establishing a relationship early is only beneficial. As all of you parents of teens know, they know everything! 