Basically, because the team, especially for her weapon, is small, and she gets to fence with more people when she goes to the club. The people she gets to fence with are also, generally, better than her teammates. She is basically their top seed in her weapon, and while she is a decent fencer, she’s not exactly at the top of the junior NPL.
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The coach’s club may be required to charge a fee of some kind in order to avoid violating NCAA rules, though perhaps that’s changed in the new NIL world. A number of fencers from my kid’s team frequently participate in open bouting at the club.
Are you aware of such a rule? I was unable to find anything. Now I’m curious…lol.
I’m not aware of a specific rule, but I do recall writing a check (or electronically reimbursing my kid) for the membership fee. If the membership is free, it might be perceived as a benefit to an NCAA athlete that’s not available to other students at the university. And since the coach is an employee of the school, that might be a violation. Having said that, if NCAA athletes want to add the luster of their names to the coach’s club, maybe that’s okay. But does “the opportunity to bout with an NCAA athlete” go beyond NIL? Hmmm.
A free or reduced fee for college kids no matter where they attend school (e.g., former fencers at the club who’ve gone away to college and want to bout over winter break) strikes me as okay since it’s not an extra benefit to the coach’s team members. Glad I’m a fencing parent and not a compliance officer!
When my son was looking at schools, one div one coach, who does have a private club, indicated that he would need to charge for open bouting times or lessons on the two weekend evenings that were not official practices. Same for before and after the official ncaa season. He stated that this was not his choice, but rather NCAA rules.
However, Same coach when asked about equipment commented that of course they would replace broken blades. When asked, he admitted, well not FIE blades.
These weren’t strong recruiting points for fencing.
Club fencing aims for NCAA status with Olympic-level coach at the helm | The Emory Wheel - Let’s hope this program takes off and that the trend spreads to other schools.
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Extrapolating from your experience, this would seem to be more about the fencer receiving “benefit” in violation of NCAA rules, rather than a specific prohibition against training at one’s college coach’s club. I still see danger of conflict of interest extending to recruiting and playing time during the NCAA season, but this does not appear to be a concern worthy of express prohibition.
Creates another interesting connection between college coaches and their own clubs
Yes, I agree. NCAA tends to not want student-athletes to receive either inequitable or inappropriate benefits, at least historically having ostensibly to do with amateurism. As a parent that had already been paying for fencing-related costs for 8+ years, I was also not thrilled with the idea of having to continue paying given the University benefits from its ncaa programs and athletes. Finally, I thought it was odd that a coach could make additional revenues from his college athletes even if it would’ve been voluntary. Glad my son was recruited and matriculated elsewhere.
Yes, I do wonder what the rules are here… Not sure.
Having done further research, including communication with several NCAA coaches, there is apparently no specific rule governing these circumstances. They all said that the overarching rule is that the fencer receive no special treatment, especially free strip time or lessons at the club location. So, it seems to come down to benefit. Sometimes, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck…
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Very nervous and stressed out as the parent of a current junior. My kid has several zoom meetings with fencing coaches and visited schools during the past several months. And he received the positive feedback or some kind of “commitment” verbally during the phone call with the coach from his first-choice school this week. But now we are very confused about what exactly the verbal commitment means, as there is no written record about this. As we understand, the verbal commitment is a “nonbinding” commitment, so anything could happen during the next year. Even though nothing is a done deal, we feel it might be not appropriate to continue talking to other schools, which makes us even more nervous due to the uncertainty. Just wondering how the other fencers/parents who’s gone through the process handle this.
Hi- first congratulations with the interest from colleges! I have no sound advice except to say that our 2023 fencer has also received verbal offers from colleges but as you mention these are non-binding so our son is continuing outreach to colleges and continuing to connect with coaches where/when he can. He’s honest with colleges if they ask- he hasn’t said he has a verbal offer from somewhere but he does say “I’m exploring options and I’ve had some interest.” We were told at the start of this process that it’s good to keep colleges thinking that you have other interest (provided you aren’t making it up!) because if they feel you’re a shoo-in (and particularly if your fencer has strong academics) then a college could just decide to offer support with admissions and save the recruitment spot for a strong fencer who may need the academic push. Again- I have zero expertise as this is our first time through this but wanted to share our experience in the event it resonates or someone more experienced wants to weigh in and counter our approach! Good luck- it is indeed stressful to make sense of the messaging.
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As with most things, it depends. It depends on the nature of the college, the coach, and the kid and family. It’s worth reading through this entire string so that you can get a sense of what this “commitment” might mean. The more specific you can be the more help folks can provide. The more frank and explicit you are with the coach the more you may know. I’m happy to answer a direct message.
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Also, there is no getting around the anxiety that will occur all the way until they receive an acceptance letter. I’d just say the uncertainty simply makes the letter sweeter. What’s been written on this forum can help mitigate though.
There is a big difference between “positive feedback” and “some kind of commitment”. As iffy as a verbal commitment may be, at a minimum, I would want to know that I actually have that verbal commitment.
In my somewhat extensive experience, despite all the mythology, it is generally the recruit who renegs on a commitment, not the coach. I know of dozense of fencers who received verbal commitments, often early in the process, all of which were honored by the respective coach.
That said, I would not broadcast that commitment and I would continue to engage with other schools and coaches. Maintain honesty to the extent of indicating you continue to do your research and to speak with other coaches, but don’t perhaps irrevocably remove yourself from contention at any school.
If your fencer has what you at least believe is a commitment from his first-choice school, there is no harm in confirming this. Leaving this in the gray area indicated by your original post is risky.
FWIW, it sounds as if you are in a great place. Just respectfully inquire to confirm what you believe.
Good luck!
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What @BrooklynRye said. I think you should have a very clear and explicit commitment. This may come with reasonable and obvious caveats, e.g., “as long as you keep up your grades and don’t do anything stupid like post unacceptable things on social media.”
When my fencer was recruited, the offer was explicit and the coach asked that my fencer not commit to other schools. He also had this via an email so I guess “in writing,” not just “verbal,” so perhaps you could ask for that? As others have said, until the school formally accepts the student, nothing is assured, even if the fencer is the coach’s top choice. But it is better to be up front and honest; I heard a report of a fencer who verbally committed to two different schools to hedge their bets and that was not a good situation. Once my fencer had the commitment from his first choice, he did let the other coach know (that also a top choice school, and he was in serious conversations but had not received an explicit offer). It was all very cordial and no hard feelings.
Good luck!
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Continue to explore schools, but when you get a verbal commitment, do ask coaches what that implies. It may mean different things to different people. A coach who is serious and where the commitment is firm will state so. The coach at the school where my D ultimately ended up told her “Apply early and I will be shocked if you don’t get in”. Other coaches were more wishy-washy: “We want you on the team and you are qualified, but I would say your chance of getting in is 50-50”. The second statement is not really a firm commitment, and I wish, in retrospect, that we didn’t waste our time on applying to that school. So, do be direct with coaches and ask them what their commitment means exactly, and go from there. Good luck!
If a verbal commitment was made but it was a bit murky in hindsight, would it be really off putting to the college coach to send a second follow up email and ask for further clarification? I feel we may be in that situation but my child feels very hesitant to ask for clarity after they initially replied that they were excited by offer and would keep in touch as we worked through the process (still exploring some colleges). It was a week or two after where we suddenly wondered if we had understood the offer…
Whatever the timing, sooner rather than later you will have to request that clarity. This will become particularly true should your fencer receive subsequent hard offers from other schools. You really don’t want to turn down an official offer if you are at all uncertain about an offer you “think” you have…
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