I recently read an article in my city’s newspaper about a local student who got accepted to all of the Ivy League schools. It got me thinking about how this student is merely a small segment of a growing trend: an emphasis on prestige, reputation, and name brand versus fit, culture, and learning environment. It seems that in this day and age, many high achieving students are applying to schools like Harvard, UChicago, and Stanford simply because they are Harvard, UChicago, and Stanford. I personally find this pursuit of prestige elitist and juvenile. A student should not choose colleges based on low admission rates and high test score and GPA averages. Many high caliber schools are being disregarded by students simply because they aren’t in US News’ top ten. I find this attitude toward college search and selection particularly prevelant on CC. To make myself clear, I am not bashing on all students who want to attend Prestigious University X, just those who are choosing it based on superficial factors. I fully support the decisions of students who want to go there for a unique opportunity not offered at other colleges or for the culture.
Just wondering about what other people thought about this subject. Please be polite. Thanks!
One legitimate reason to try to get accepted to one of the prestigious colleges is the advantage it often gives later on. Certain grad schools and professions give preference to name brand colleges. This discussion had some interesting information on this topic, particularly regarding getting accepted to medical school and becoming a college professor:
The prestige plague affects A TINY PERCENTAGE of the nation’s high school juniors/seniors. Let’s not forget that the average kiddo goes to the public school not far from home - often starting at the local community college.
It’s not new, it’s just that kids are applying to more schools now and everything everyone does gets magnified by the Internet and social media. Anyone who goes to an Ivy and tells you prestige isn’t a big part of it is lying. Prestige is real. It makes a difference. Why did I go to Yale a million years ago instead of Oberlin or Reed? Partly because I knew a Yale degree would impress people.
There’s also another factor nowadays. If you’re a low-to-moderate income applicant the most prestigious colleges also give the most need-based aid.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that “prestige” is a self-contained quality, that it’s not a collateral quality formed by many other qualities over many, many decades.
So while you’re right that it’s quite possible (common, even!) to overemphasize prestige, the fact is that those schools with great “prestige” have it for some very compelling reasons–they’ve been excellent for a long, long time in many, many ways.
Roundgenius, I think what you’re saying is that for some people prestige is the only criterion, but you think it should be one of multiple criteria.
When stats like average pay for alumni are referenced as justification for chasing prestige, they are often misinterpreting the stats. Like hypothetically civil engineers from elite U might average $90k & same from merely “good” school might average $70k. BUT, maybe average ACT at elite U. is 34 and at good u. it’s 31. It’s quite possible that those who had a 32 ACT at each school end up making just about the same. Meaning which school u went to isn’t as important as how "smart " u are. (Just using ACT as an example…cud be GPA or SAT or how articulate you are or any other factor…please dont assume I’m saying ACT is perfectly accurate measure of intelligence)
As a low-income student and high-achieving STEM student, I didn’t have the liberty to apply to any old college in America; the only schools that were affordable for me are my public state universities and some elite schools that give excellent need-based FA. I don’t think its a coincidence that the most prestigious universities are those that give the best aid. Nevertheless, I didn’t apply to prestigious schools like Vanderbilt, Duke, Carnegie Mellon, or any UC simply because they weren’t going to give me enough FA (I didn’t want to take out loans).
However, all this hoo-ha about “fit” is just a effort by rich students and their parents to prevent high-achiving poor students from applying to the same university as their child simply because their child was able to visit and stay overnight and thus knew he would “fit” at that college. Give me a break. The top bright student would fit at any good university after a weekend or two and a positive attitude.
If that’s the case, then it’s a straw man. There’s no evidence that a rising (or even statistically significant) number of people are treating prestige as “the only criterion.”
I completely agree. I understand that ivy league degrees might carry more “prestige” than a state school degree, but unless you want to be the president or a millionaire on wall street, it doesn’t have as much effect as some think. The 60k in tuition I would have to pay at an ivy league compared to almost free state tuition is not worth a tiny leg up in the job market imo.
That may be your estimated contribution, but don’t forget that the Ivies have very deep pockets and [actually compare very favorably to their downstream competitors](What Harvard Actually Costs):
@katliamom
I understand this affects only a tiny percentage of high school students, which is why I specified the phenomenon to high achieving students.
@marvin100
Although I did describe “the prestige plague” as a growing trend, I only meant to say that it was something I had been noticing more of. @delurk1 was correct (I believe) in saying that the Internet has magnified this phenomenon. And I understand the schools are prestigious for good reasons; however, that doesn’t make someone who is applying to all the Ivy Leagues just to be able say they got into all of them not arrogant or elitist.
@gebo342
“Fit” is not something created by rich families to bar high achieving, low income students from applying to a university. I understand that I will be fairly happy at almost any school with a notable academic background and an intellectual student population. But I want to truly fall in love with my college. That what “fit” means and it certainly isn’t some social construct meant to make getting in to top schools more difficult.
To wrap up, I understand that financial aid is a factor and that universities that are more prestigious tend to give away more aid. But I would consider that a legitimate criteria for a school, unrelated to prestige. There are schools outside the top 20 that are need blind.
Who is this imaginary person? It seems to me that you’re imputing intentions on people whose intentions you don’t know at all. Pure speculation, resembling the straw man I mentioned earlier.
If such a person exists (and I remain unconvinced that he or she does), then sure, that’s not optimal and perhaps even self-defeating, but that’s so banal as to be almost a truism.
@Mastadon - then what do you think of Deep Springs or TASP?
^While I do agree with most o the points you are making, @marvin100, I do not think that student is imaginary. Far from it. I knew some of these students myself in high school back in 2003-2004, when we were applying for college; and they still exist now. Of course there are some students who want to be able to brag that they got into Harvard or Yale, even if they have little intention of going there.
Okay, @juillet , I’ll take your word for it, but the suggestion that prestige could be someone’s only criterion seems to me to be inherently unsupportable, and it surprises me that you think you can really know other people’s reasons for the choices they make in life.
I know I’ve never met a student to whom I could confidently apply that description, despite teaching hundreds of students a year in the belly of the tiger mom beast here in Seoul for 14 years now.
Marvin, are u missing the threads in which a student says something like “I LOVE everything about moderately prestigious college x, but I also got into college y, that is more prestigious.” ? And then hoardes of people insist that y is the obvious choice because its got more prestige. Wouldn’t you say these people have prestige as the only criterion?