A good read from The Atlantic.
I’m not sure what your point is-- “the privilege of school choice”
Care to be clear?
Those who can afford it often pick private schools rather than the local public school, or they are able to choose magnets and charter schools that may require the family provide transportation, uniforms, or charges for EC’s.
“The Privilege of School Choice” is the name of the article. It was a well written piece on a topic of concern to many on this forum.
I read many pieces during the day, and one comes along that was well written on a relevant topic, I frequently post it here. Sometimes it gets picked up and it generates a discussion, other times it falls off page one without a comment.
Many give lip service to multiculturalism and socioeconomic diversity but when it comes to their kids, then the parents want them to go to school with their “own kind”, particularly if they’re UMC.
Multicultural is not always the problem. If you can leave a failing school, you will.
UMC–is that University of My Choice?
UMC probably means “upper middle class” (probably the ones that complain about taxes, not being able to afford their kids’ college while poorer people get financial aid, etc.).
On a more serious note, my kids attend(ed) extremely diverse nyc schools and they were excellent in their own ways. In NYC it might be worth noting that quality is not determined by the color or ethnicity of the student body as it often is assumed and as it may be elsewhere.
In one HS my child’s ethnic identity group made up just 7% of the population and the poverty rate was above 2/3 of the student body. So technically it was segregated by the larger ethnic groups that made up 93% of the student body. It was also one of the most innovative schools in NYC, a city with lots and lots of innovative schools. This HS has a hands-on program that if I described it, it would be hard to believe, in terms of programming, the lovely location, and the out-of-school activities. Gorgeous facilities overlooking the Statue of LIberty amid ground designated as part of the National Park System. My uber nerdy child had all of this space to run around and, not one for athletics, learned to parkour.
Middle school–also one of the more ethnically diverse schools and one of the top middle schools. Very innovative, progressive programming.
In fact: it might be interesting to note that some of the top, highest-performing high schools also have some of the highest concentrations of first-gen kids with various skin tones and who speak a language other than English at home.
The bad thing about choice in NYC is that some people seek out “their own.” On the flip side, if you live in a homeless shelter, and you can figure out transportation, you CAN get your kids into a fabulous school. This happened in our grade school. A family living in a shelter in the Bronx, single dad, working, with kids, he got his kids to school in Manhattan every day. A really good grade school. And probably gave them a better economic boost in life as a result.
Well it is not just people who complain about taxes that choose private or charter schools, most parents want the best education for their children available. Even in Washington D.C. politicians on both sides of the political aisle send their kids to private schools… even the most liberal, anti-choice legislators that spend their time bashing the 1% percent of US households.
It may come as a surprise that the public schools in NYC are good enough that people who could afford privates often choose the publics.
There are like 600 high schools. Just imagine that for a second. 600 choices just for high school.
Several of them have produced several Nobel prize winners; your favorite designer or actor–I mean the talent is amazing. And then there are the “ordinary” schools with opportunities, such as the high school where you can go to grade 14 and graduate with an associates degree and an internship under your belt at a major corporation. Or the one where you learn airplane mechanics on airplanes and helicopters actually at your school, like inside the huge building that fills an entire block. There are schools for people who want to learn the various mechanics of the subway system–can you imagine that? What a way to learn engineering . . . .schools for computer programming, schools for culinary arts, schools for music where you’re taught daily by members of the NY symphony and on and on and on.
Of course you’re limited by how far you want your kids to go each day, but you’d be surprised at the number of “two-fare” kids determined to attend the high school of their choice. That means they pay 2 fares each way. With each swipe of a metro card you get a ride plus a transfer. This means they are transferring at least twice. Some do that plus a ferry ride just to attend one of the historically amazing schools.
And families will drive from outer Queens to reach some unzoned school they fell in love with. It’s kind of crazy, but also kind of cool.
@zinhead – thanks for sharing the article. I did find it very interesting. The article tried to be well-balanced, but did show a slight slant in a few areas. First, the statistics quoted could be misleading. They point out school districts where enrolled students have a much lower median income, or different racial mix, that the population of their zoned areas. But these are only meaningful if the differences are true of the populations in that area with school-aged children. Certain areas of cities attract higher income individuals who do not have families, so there is no evidence that the statistics represent families that are actually living there and sending their children elsewhere. Secondly, the author repeatedly accuses parents who are clearly trying to find the best education for their children as choosing against “integration”. There is no evidence given that these parents are racist, or social elitists – on the contrary, all evidence given points to the scores of the schools, not the racial or economic make-up. The unintended result may be a lack of integration, but the subtle accusation throughout (reinforced by mixing stories from decades ago and stories from today) is that these current parents are choosing “against” integration.
I found it interesting that the article treated magnet schools as part of the problem. The last two cities I have lived near chose the worst-performing inner-city schools to turn into magnet schools. Due to the city’s shifting dynamics, these had larger facilities than were required for the local population, so they funded art or math/science programs to attract students from a broader area – but the students in the area still had the right to go to that school. Thus my experience is that magnet schools are an aid to integration and improving schools in low-income areas, not the opposite.
I agree that the evidence that students in very low income inner-city areas receive a poorer education at their schools than a peer in an upper-middle class suburban school, even when controlling for student aptitude and parent involvement. That does perpetuate socio-economic and racial divides across generations. If I had to choose between government spending to make these schools more broadly attractive (like magnet programs or special technologies) or taking freedom away from families to make the sacrifices they feel are necessary for their education, I would choose the former every time. Don’t sit on the sidelines and vilify the choices of parents who care deeply for their kids’ safety and future; rather make other choices more attractive to them and let freedom reign.
Magnet schools usually require the student to provide their own transportation or the transportation might take a good deal of time.
My daughter went to a magnet program, but it was in the school for which we were zoned. Half the school was the ‘traditional’ program, and was heavily Hispanic (although not ESL, so even some neighborhood kids had to be bused to another middle school). The other half, the magnet, was not racially diverse at all - almost all white with some Asian students. If you looked at the school as a whole, it appeared to be diverse but the reality was the Hispanic kids were in the regular program and the white kids were in the IB program. Physically in different parts of the school and they didn’t melt in a big pot, but stayed very separate, very unequal. Very few traditional program kids were involved in band, orchestra, sports, drama, art. The were hardly involved in academics. On awards night, 95% of the awards went to magnet kids. It really was two separate schools but statistics were reported as one school.
I have a niece who lives in the Bronx, near the Botanical Garden. Technically, I suppose, it is Riverdale, but not the fancy part. She and her H both went to private schools in other states. Their oldest is in the G&T program in her public school. She is the only white girl in her class. (All the kids in the class are in the G&T program.) According to the prevailing narrative, this should not be. Interestingly, they had a choice between this school and another that they were in the regular zone for. That school is, I believe, whiter, and actually has higher overall scores despite not hosting a G&T program. I don’t know how the G&T program scores compare. It’s an interesting situation. It remains to be seen what they will do with their two younger children, how they will test, etc. And what they will do about middle school. And whether this pressure will eventually drive them out of the city.
NYC has an astonishing array of options. Most places don’t have the population density to support it.
I agree with Dustyfeathers, as a parent who sent two kids to diverse NYC public schools. The options and opportunities are absolutely staggering. It was a through a school program that my son met the well-known and accomplished music teacher who would give him private lessons for many years and open up a world of experiences that we couldn’t even imagine. Absolutely life-changing. One of my kids had all the choices - top one-percenter in her year, so she had the special admissions round for high school, accepted into Stuyvesant and Bard, private high school scholarships. Chose a program in a majority black school and had a magnificent experience. She now holds a master’s degree and a fabulous job and credits her attendance in that program with all her success. Many of the kids who went through with her come back to the school and bring their experiences and expertise to the next generation. More than a few eventually come back to teach there. Very special.
Two caveats: navigating the admissions processes for NYC schools can be beyond challenging. I mean really challenging and requiring of time, expertise, and assistance. It is not a process for the uninformed or the delicate. The vast majority of kids find wonderful fits, but the families have to know what to do and when to do it. Not easy, and then there are people with agendas that make it tougher.
Also, it is an open secret that when programs pull more affluent kids into less affluent schools, the kids are often segregated within the schools and receive benefits not available to everyone. I’ve said for years and still say that frequently the pull of affluent kids is about numbers on reports, not actual education of human beings.
Speaking of “school choice,” has anyone seen this story out of Alabama?
A federal judge is letting an Alabama school district return to segregation.
We like to think we’re past this but often times, when given the chance, white people will choose to send their children to school with other white kids. Now, it’s not always out of prejudice, but often times it is.
I really don’t want to be the person who says this, but not all white people would choose that… and many people of all races and ethnicities would choose to send their kids to like-race/ethnicity/other characteristic (ie religion) schools. It’s part of tribalism.
I don’t know why we pretend we’re past prejudice though. Those white people you saw screaming at and abusing the Black kids are still alive and many are still in charge of things… or raised children who are certainly in charge of things (like classrooms, school districts, etc). Anyone who thinks we’re past this is beyond ignorant and the epitome of privileged.
@romanigypsyeyes Of course, I totally agree that not all white people would choose that. That’s self explanatory. As for other races wanting the same thing, even if they did, they wouldn’t have the institutional wield to do such a thing. With the case in Alabama, we can at least stop pretending there aren’t a bunch of people who want segregated schools I feel for the black kids who have been pushed into the almost all white district and know their peers (or at least their parents) don’t feel they are welcome. Really sad.
I really don’t like magnets or charter schools as I think they take money out of the neighborhood schools and concentrate talent (both student and parent) in little pockets. However, one of my kids went to a magnet and one to a charter for middle school. You have to play the cards you are dealt and those were the best choices for them at the time. I couldn’t change things and I couldn’t make my kids go to the neighborhood school’s traditional program because I thought magnets/charters weren’t good for society.
I lived and worked in Boston during the busing crisis, and one of the black parents I worked with told me that she wanted her children to go to a neighborhood school, not be bused elsewhere.
Of course, that didn’t mean that she was willing to accept that her neighborhood school be inferior OR that it be segregated. A lot of people are caught in this dilemma, thanks to a history of segregation, including that actively promoted by the FHA rules after WWII.