My FiL is a retired big city cop (more than 20 years retired). He always said that they rarely got to see anyone at their best. If they were being called it was an accident, crime, domestic issue, etc. Its a lot more challenging now (he walked a beat that no one walks today – ride around in cars–and he partner was killed on the job and FiL shot).
@EconPop, yup. A number of posters earlier had said that they didn’t see this behavior in their settings. It is definitely here in my world.
We actually moved out of the city to an exurb with good public schools to get away from the craziness we saw when ShawSon was four. But, it is an affluent burb and it manifests itself here as well.
From my perspective, the causes of rising inequality are (technology, globalization of markets, and a lack of redistribution in our tax code/government policies). Globalization may be reversing a bit (to the extent we build supply chains outside of China) and there may be a modest swing toward redistribution (which will be muted due to Senators Manchin and Sinema). But the basic drivers have not really shifted.
We do see something else. Some of our friends are sufficiently wealthy that their kids don’t feel pressure to pursue careers that pay a lot. One friend has three kids all of whom do socially valuable but not highly remunerative stuff. One is a public school teacher who also writes about education policy. Probably headed to a think tank some day. Another is a lawyer working for political campaigns. The last works on international crisis prevention/resolution. Another friend has three kids who aren’t at the same level and they are explicitly and virulently anti-capitalists (while depending upon handouts from the Bank of Mom & Dad)… One chose to live in Central Park and dumpster dive for at least a year and now does web design. He is very bright and his employment is well below his talent level. The second is holding out for a job (while living in an apt in NY) that is aimed at eliminating prison and turning down other NGO jobs. The third is going to become an artist (no issue here actually as I think she is pursuing it aggressively but she can afford it due to said Bank). Another couple has two virulently anti-capitalist kids. One has bounced around (depressed, I think) and worked for a green energy company and now works for an interesting agtech company but is going to study for a degree in labor relations so he can defend the down-trodden laborer (not clear they want to be defended by want upper middle class kids but OK). And the other works in the creative area (films, TV, etc.) which again is not an issue, but I sense that this one quit most jobs pretty quickly and isn’t on an upward trajectory despite a lot of talent. All these kids went to Ivies or high ranking LACs. Some of them (the political consultant or the TV kid) could end up with more remunerative careers. Money is not the be-all and end-all, but in this context, it is probably worth noting that some kids, from families nearer the top end of the 9.9%, may not be following an upwardly mobile path, in some of these cases with the full blessing of the parents.
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Social capital is an important metric/force as well, although it’s harder to talk about without sounding like an editor of the Social Register (or Edith Wharton’s young cousin). History (and literature) is filled with the scions of the wealthy who scorn their family’s wealth except when they need it. They can still be upwardly mobile even without being “upwardly mobile” in pure economic terms.
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Or if not mobile, they can at least maintain their status due to their trust funds. Little downward mobility for them
I would speculate that they would feel more self actualized if they were able to achieve what they wish while being severed from the familial financial umbilical cord. The people I know in this situation are very stressed people and not very happy. Then again, it’s purely anecdotal.
There’s nothing new under the sun. This book talks about all the same things happening in the upper class before WW2 (including how many WASPs ended up despising capitalism and admiring the Soviet Union): https://www.amazon.com/WASPS-Splendors-Miseries-American-Aristocracy/dp/1643137069/
A lengthy series of extracts from the book is in this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1430948554512601089
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@blossom and @roycroftmom, completely agree. Went to school with quite a few (J. Wigglesworth Buttersworth IV affectionately know as Wiggie). I went out with a lovely young woman whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower. I actually learned a lot from them, which was about how to walk in the pathways of power – the social education was really valuable.
Things are a little different now. My son’s business school wants to enroll/graduate the business leaders of the future. In South America, this seems to mean admitting the more able sons (and to a lesser extent daughters) of the owners of the regions’ major businesses (as they will likely be running them in the not so distant future). My son is a sweet kid who is a) driven; and b) extraordinarily bright (he heard from friends that he was being described by others as “a genius who you need to talk with if you are thinking of starting a new business”) and one of the Latin American kids incorrectly thought my son wasn’t have a good time at business school and decided to start including him in some events from that group. ShawSon at one point asked, “Do all of your fathers have publicly listed companies?” The guy said, “No. Some are privately held.”
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Yes, the top business schools have long admitted the scions of power, plus a few academic kids to keep the numbers up.
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Interesting. Didn’t know this. I guess this is background for folks like Alger Hiss.
Just as much of European colonialism was spurred by younger aristocrats locked out of landed estates due to primogeniture. A lot of them wound up in the American south.
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The other reason to admit the academically strong kids is that the future company owners actually need people talented enough to run their company, and the B-school facilitates the introduction.
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I’ll be honest, as someone not in the economic class being discussed, my big takeaway from this thread is that the most important thing I can do as an investment in my kids’ future happiness is to teach them to live within their means (as my parents did for me).
I have nowhere near the means of these anxious people, but also not really any significant worry about slipping down a rung on the ladder. My H and I both pursued careers that were interesting to us, if not particularly lucrative. Somehow, we have enough, and we enjoy a nice life and will put our children through college without taking on debt (for them or for us) to give them that leg up at the start of their adult lives. I am “sufficiently wealthy” enough to encourage my daughters to do the same with their lives (follow their interests and figure out how to make things work financially).
I think the Notorious B.I.G. was on to something…Mo Money Mo Problems. 
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While that is certainly admirable, the high cost of living in many places (housing, childcare, and of course education) would require my kids to offset other plans (having children, homeownership) if they did not pursue sufficiently high paying careers. It was easier in the past to follow one’s interests and still afford a home and children in most cities.
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There are still people in places like New York City and Boston who own a home, have children, have health insurance, and have “normal” type careers. No- not Manhattan-- the Bronx or Queens. No- not Back Bay- but Allston or going out to Waltham. Some nice towns on the South Shore if you don’t mind taking the commuter train in to Boston. In my own family- these are school teachers married to speech therapists; professionals with advanced degrees but no “mommy daddy” money on either side.
It can be done. It does take two incomes-- for sure- and it does take some reality checking in terms of real estate (not the penthouse in Tribeca, no stucco Tudor in South Brookline). But these are young adults who did not off-set having children and all the rest of it and somehow they are making it work. And it helps if you end up settling in a place with great public transportation so you only need to budget for one car.
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A sincere question. Average housing purchase cost in Queens is $722k; in Brooklyn, it is $728K. That would normally mean a down payment (at 20%) of about $150K. Average annual daycare cost for one child in that area is $16,848. Average rent is just over $3k. So monthly costs prior to utilities, food, insurance, or any other fact of life is $4400. On a 2-teacher salary, how does one save up the down payment?
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Queens is a big borough, average house costs include Douglaston and the other “fancy” areas (Donald Trump grew up in Queens and Fred Trump could have afforded a home in any of the five boroughs). Elmhurst, Flushing- these are the “value” neighborhoods. Yes- they exist. I mention where family members live and folks wrinkle their noses-- and yet somehow there are entire blocks filled with pharmacists and nurses and librarians and social workers and people who own small landscaping companies or a retail business.
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This former homeowner in Waltham approves this message! LOL.
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It’s important to have at least one conversation with your children as they are applying to colleges, and choosing possible career paths - as to what kind of life they envision for themselves on the other side of college - and whether their chosen career paths will get them there. Service-oriented jobs such as teachers, police, nurses, social workers, etc. tend to be on the lower end of the pay scale (although my dad was a teacher In NY for 42 years and retired with a pretty impressive pension and great teacher union benefits, but I digress…) All of those are admirable professions, some will come with pay increases after additional education, but there will be limitations in lifestyle with these careers, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing - I would just want my kids to go in with their eyes wide open.
I’ve listened to so many friends & acquaintances over the years lament about low pay in these types of jobs (and I agree with them), but part of me is wondering how they couldn’t have known what the salaries would be beforehand?
My daughter makes what I think is an impressive amount of money in her career (for a 26 year old), but the work is intense and the hours are long. She’d like to go back to school or start her own business or get in on a start-up but she struggles with potential sacrifice to her current lifestyle and worry over how the bills will get paid. I think she will make the leap when she starts a family because her present job doesn’t leave much room for a work/life balance. In the meantime she will focus on building her bank account so she has a parachute if she needs it.
For most in our generation, the road to success started low and became a steady climb that spanned years of working hard and waiting for promotions & pay increases, but many millennials are starting at 6-figures right out of college (or getting there in just a couple of years). I think it puts a lot of pressure on them at a very young age, to always be reaching new heights. It’s hard for them to fathom coming down from such a high perch.
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A large percentage of jobs in the US and other rich economics are services (versus manufacturing, agriculture, or resource extraction), including often-well-paid ones like physician, lawyer, engineer, and CEO. To use the term “service job” as a synonym for lower paid jobs is not really accurate.
Also, while social workers are lower paid, teachers, police officers, and nurses are often at least decently paid (although, as noted previously, they end up doing some social work as part of their jobs because we do not want to pay for enough actual social workers). When people think of “lower paid service jobs”, the more common examples are non-high-end restaurant and retail jobs, although social work and early childhood education are examples of lower paid jobs that require college education.
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A former best friend of mine went through the entire gamut, landing a high-intensity corporate job right after a third-generation Ivy legacy education; got a bad case of the “guilts” in his mid-20s and decided he would turn to teaching in the NYC public school system. Then, after seeming to have hit his stride after about ten years, decided he’d had enough of “the bureaucracy” and packed it all in to return to the corporate world and a lifestyle very similar to the one he was raised in. Not to be mean, but it was like watching a salmon returning upstream to spawn.
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