Ok - Let’s go with your “lower paid service jobs” term
Most of the complaints about low pay that I’ve heard over the years are from teachers, social workers and police officers. With the exception of teachers in certain states (like NY which has a prolific teachers’ union), I don’t believe this group is paid in the correct proportion to the services they provide (especially police officers). Some nurses are paid decently if they have high certifications, but probably not the ones who are cleaning up messes in nursing homes and psych wards.
Pay is low by the typical standards of these forums (most of these pay levels are at the edge of Pell grant eligibility, nowhere near the no-college-financial-aid-anywhere range that is so common here), but these are probably “middle America” pay levels (median individual income in the US is about $34k, while median household income is about $63k).
Preschool teachers do stand out as significantly lower than the others, while social workers are somewhat lower.
As long as there are no hat tricks like those used by banks that did cause the 2008 meltdown, I doubt a major bust is coming. Mortgage crisis was not caused by bunches of two teacher spouses buying a house with 3% down.
The overall rates among all persons buying homes – not just first-time home buyers – are well above 6%. It’s quite common for first-time-homebuyers to lose bidding to persons/companies/investors paying in 100% cash without a loan, including in expensive areas.
Before we had the subprime crisis in '08, there was a HLTV mortage crisis just over 10 years earlier. History alway seems to repeat itself, even if not in an exact form.
NYC DOE teacher salaries are very good relative to some other places. My daughter has only been working there for 3 years and is almost at 6 figures (includes the 6 week summer program but not the tutoring or credits noted below). There are ways to make extra money after school, especially now when they are trying to catch kids up, take extra credits to move up, etc. My daughter has gotten emails that pay up to $90 a session through the DOE. The most recent email paid $60 a session for after school hours. Not a ton of money but small amounts slowly add up. Also- you can give up your lunch or prep to teach- and make an additional $14,000 or more per year. Health insurance is free so you don’t have that monthly cost.
There are sections of Brooklyn and Queens that are very expensive (I can’t afford many of these homes). There are also small homes and apartments within these areas that are more affordable and moderately priced. You really have to do your research and be willing to live outside of some of these more popular areas.
I am not suggesting that it’s easy (it’s still costly) but people do it.
Maybe, I’ll let you know know if and when it happens.
Personally, I’m expecting real estate to “tank” soon.
IIRC, and I’m sure someone will check me here, VA loans can have as little as 0% down and FHA loans as little as 3.5% down. Programs that are still being utilized, even here in CA.
There are cheaper rents and cheaper daycares. I live in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, 10-minute walk (well, it takes me 10 minutes but I am OLD!) to the subway, and I pay $2150 for a very nice two-bedroom apartment. Buying a 2-bedroom coop apartment would cost around the same every month.
NYC public schools have 3K–kids who turn 3 are eligible for full-time public school. And of course universal pre-K for the 4-year-olds. Many daycares pick kids up after school and provide vacation coverage.
It doesn’t have to cost so much. And no one needs to own a car. I rent whenever I need one, and there’s always Zipcar.
Just wanted to know what you meant by not “at the same level” – do you mean in terms of motivation? Or innate intelligence? If the former, I’m not completely sure how taking a job doing web design, trying to abolish prisons, becoming an artist, or defending “the down-trodden laborer” would all necessitate not living up to their potential (but of course you know these kids better!).
@bloomington019, I would say motivation and perhaps a bit on the innate talent level. But all are pretty high on the innate talent level (they all attended Ivies or highly ranked LACs that were pretty hard to get into). The park-dwelling dumpster diver chose that as an anti-capitalist statement. When he was in HS and college, he was really thoughtful and a great writer. My wife urged him to write a book about being a modern-day Thoreau and writing a book to make sense of his choices and his year(s) in the park. He wasn’t interested. There is nothing wrong with being a web developer, but the job as described seemed low-level compared to what we believe he is capable of. I’m a bit unclear that abolishing prisons is actually a good idea, but what I was commenting on was her unwillingness to take any other job until she finds a job one that matches her very specific interest. With respect to the artist, I know how hard a profession it is. What I gave her kudos for was pursuing it aggressively. But, it is another relatively low income choice (with high probability). My wife is an artist who is very hard-working and relatively successful (many, many one person shows at galleries, works in museum collections, etc.) is rare in that she is always cash flow positive (and in some years much better) but there are quite a few years where it has been hard to be much more than cash flow positive. What was strange to me about the agtech/labor kid I mentioned is that the agtech company has a great mission (very good from an environmental standpoint) and his plans to go into labor relations instead seem naive and unfocused. And, this follows a string of jobs that he hasn’t seemed particularly attached to in a number of fields. We do know all of these kids well (my wife knows some better, I know some of the others better).
My ds has a high school classmate who is a rabid anti-capitalist. This young man was a National Merit Finalist and attended our former state’s flagship university on a combo of a National Merit Scholarship, a large state-sponsored scholarship for those with high scores/grades, and a smaller lottery scholarship. Those three awards covered almost all of his costs, and he graduated debt-free after four and a half years with a degree in history. He has been living with his parents ever since - it will have been three years in December. After he graduated, he had one job still on campus that was 15 or 20 hours per week that paid $15 per hour. It was eliminated during Covid. He is now serving beer at a local brewery. While he made a college major choice that is not as directly marketable as some others, he also has particular standards about what sort of institution/business he is willing to work for.
In contrast, I know another young person (also from the same high school but two years older) who double-majored in Spanish and Art at a small LAC who has been gainfully employed in a major corporation for five years working in HR. She started hourly to get her foot in the door but quickly became a salaried employee and has since advanced and done quite well. Bought a home, is saving for retirement, etc. She found a way to make her liberal arts degree work, but the young man mentioned above would (and does) consider her a sell out. He would never go to work, “for the man.”
I struggle with him and his attitude. Maybe that is wrong of me - idk. He is capable of much but does little based on his principles. It is hard for me to have sympathy for his not being able to fully support himself. He would definitely consider those in the top 9.9% to be prima facie, “bad.”
I can’t tell if the young man is Marxist but too many people I have seen who are seem to focus on the “to each according to his need” but forget the “from each according to his ability”. It is utopian in my view because too many in such situations aren’t willing to contribute. I find it interesting that he is choosing NOT to take jobs he is capable of being productive in because of his values. In a true Marxist society he would not have a choice regardless of how menial the labor was.
Altogether, Kentucky and 18 other states applied for waivers. Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota and Wisconsin would require 80 hours of work per month; Indiana up to 20 hours per week; Alabama, Idaho and Mississippi 20 hours of work per week; New Hampshire 100 hours per month; and Utah three consecutive months of job search/training unless they are working 30 hours per week.
It would seem that in at least 18 states of the union those “Marxist” kids would at least be eligible for Medicaid.
