The benefits people derive from their choice of car (when transportation can be successfully accomplished with anything with an engine and 4 wheels in immediate proximity to the ground), or how stylish/smart they are dressing (when any basic garment will be sufficient protection against elements), or where they take people out to dine (when Panera does have various equally nutritious chicken salads and ice tea),… do not have a numeric value to apply math against.
Even a 180 HP, four-door Honda Civic strictly speaking might be more than what most people actually “need”.
The selectivity and brand name of college, for many, is just another part of that overall “identity”, just like donning their Hugo Boss and then taking guests in their 760i to Le Bernadin instead. If it means they network in the “right” circles and it gets them incalculable results, such as life satisfaction - who is to argue?
So to me, it’s all just a question of degree.
(Unless, we all join the Amish - but then we shouldn’t be online here chatting with the English!)
Ok, so PSU is a bad example because that state is weird in its higher ed costs. But just as we do not generally subsidize parents and kids who might prefer a private K12 education ( we do offer all a free public option), I have no problem with that model extending to higher ed as well. Attend your public u for very little, in my world, or pay on your own for your other options if you want them. We are content for this for K12; not sure why it changes for college.
Some (if not all) of the schools you mention here are definitely well-known in top banking circles in NYC, in medical school admissions, MBA admissions at top schools, etc. You’d be very surprised.
Of course - but I predict 0% odds for those who don’t try.
My wife was just gushing over how amazing some 1.35 Billion jackpot is – my response: I found it more amazing that there were enough people to pay 2.7 Billion in tickets just to make one person super-rich?
Some people apparently like lottery odds, others “speculate” on the added value of elite colleges for their child.
Also, a lot of what PARENTS care about is not whether an extra $50K or $100K, saved on college, compounds to more, over a career than the higher income from a “better” degree.
Rather, parents want, among other things:
Happy kids
Kids who launch successfully into careers
Kids who have SUCCESSFUL careers (not only monetarily)
A bit of status seeking (my kid went to Fancy U, not Northeast Podunk State)
Potentially appealing dating/future spouse prospects, and just generally more social polish
All of these things might be seen to be more likely at a typical more prestigious uni, vs. a Flagship and especially a sub-Flagship public…
I think Rice, Emory, and WUSTL are not really in the same group with the others, in terms of broad name-recognition and prestige among the folks who matter.
That said, I’m biased - two of mine were or are about to be at WUSTL.
Again I noted that those kids launch successfully so those who need to know do - but if you asked on the street 100 people about WUSTL but stopped at WU, the majority would say seattle.
The accelerated MSN at an Ivy League school is actually an accelerated BSN. Making it the MSN allows you to take out federal grad school loans. It’s the same material as other accelerated BSN degrees- it is intended for non-nurses.
There is no advantage career wise to getting the accelerated MSN at an Ivy League school over getting the accelerated BSN at a school such as Hunter (both are intended for non nurses who graduated college). Many students are actually rejected from the CUNY programs and end up at an Ivy. The accelerated MSN will not get you more money- it’s the same material as the accelerated BSN.
My daughter was originally planning to attend one of these accelerated Ivy League programs (realized it was the wrong career). Prior to starting classes she was given a math test- it was decimals and fractions. She told me it was the same material she learned in elementary school and they were told if they fail they could retake it. This was at an Ivy League school.
I am not suggesting that nursing degrees are easy (nursing is a tough career). I am not suggesting that it is not “worth it” to obtain an accelerated nursing degree/MSN + NP at an Ivy League school if that is where you choose to go. They are very good programs.
I will say, however, that there is no advantage to attending an Ivy over another school - for this particular accelerated degree. Students from non Ivy League schools work at all of the top NYC hospitals. I know this because I have also worked at these hospitals.
Probably because the analogy is flawed. In many states, parents are given the option to enroll their kids in privately-run, charter schools on the taxpayer’s dime.
Well that’s because the name of the college isn’t Washington University.
I don’t think this thread is about name recognition. It’s about whether elite colleges give some advantages. Clearly, this depends on the career path, and some depends on the eye of the beholder.
Some people who can afford to pay the full cost of attendance anywhere will not do so under any circumstances because…they just won’t.
Some just don’t have the resources to pay fully for these schools yet don’t qualify for enough need based aid to attend.
Some people (like us) were able to pay the full cost of attendance for our kids…and we did with no regrets. They went to excellent colleges, but not top 20 or anything close (well…one of their schools is close now, but wasn’t when they attended).
I won’t repeat the excellent post by @beebee3 above which outlines the varying points of view.
And I will agree that there are some professions where a degree from an elite school is highly valued, agreeing with @Catcherinthetoast
And I’m sure we all know successful people who graduated NOT from elite colleges, and unsuccessful ones who did.
I was speaking purely about objectively measurable cost and return in the terms of expected salary based on the known averages. There are many other metrics and intangibles people can use besides that though in their decision of which college to choose. Our son certainly didn’t pick the cheapest option.
Many of the other perceived benefits though are speculative, as you alluded to.
I can only speak to engineering and healthcare. Those are pretty egalitarian out of the gate, and almost exclusively meritocratic after that. Elite schools (excluding graduate school) are not overly represented on top engineering teams or in healthcare.
I scanned through this thread and didn’t see how colleges were determined to be “elite.” Is elite status determined by USNRW ranking or by it admission rate? USNWR ranking includes things that may, or may not, be important to a full-pay family (ex. social mobility). Admission rate is a factor of how many students applied.
If a USNWR T10 and a USNWR T25 or T50 were all free, would one be more “worth it” than the others?
I agree it’s not about name recognition. I only went there because some didn’t understand why someone would pay full for Lehigh or Miami.
Answer - because someone wanted to.
But I brought up the name recognition because in my opinion, Miami likely has more name recognition than any school I listed and Lehigh more than a Hamilton, Colby, Bates, Grinnell, Carleton, etc. at least in my opinion.
Didn’t meant to go a different direction but it came up in a comment.
Some obviously feel each of these schools is worthy of full pay and if they can afford to pay without impacting their overall finances I say wonderful.
But if my kid got into Colby and Miami both full pay, I’d hope he’d choose Miami. But I was in this situation - W&L full and Miami $25k off and my student wasn’t allowed to choose either (over our pre established budget).
But again - the entire discussion - it’s all very personal.
The truth is - from any school there are no guarantees. Nor are there any limitations - should the student be a go getter.
I think that’s where so many kids miss - is hustle.
A college education costs too much for the vast majority of families so it’s understandable that we all want to know how much it’s worth. I’d like to be able to quantify the value of education at a particular college as much as anyone, but I know I can’t and would challenge anyone who claims s/he can. There’re simply too many possible states of the world in the next 40 years and too many idiosyncrasies to parametrize any reasonable model.
The decision whether to pay extra for an elite college education is intensely and inherently familial, starting with what financial sacrifices, if any, the family needs to make in order to afford the extra cost.
I have no problem with somebody attending an “elite” college if they can afford to so without financial hardship. These are wonderful schools.
I know students who were accepted to these schools and turned them down or had no interest to begin with. These kids took the money to lower ranked schools and are doing very well.
I absolutely agree with you regarding nursing degrees from Ivy League schools, and have stated similar views on the nursing threads here. Both my BSN and MSN from a small state school have served me very well in my career.
My reply was in response to the poster who questioned if the Ivies even have nursing programs.
Most people who will pay near or full pay for a top school aren’t likely doing it for the “name recognition”. They are doing it because they believe it’s the best choice for the education of their child. If a family felt Colby was a better choice for their kid (location, size, no greek life, preference for a LAC, unwilling to spend a penny in the state of FL given the changes there since they may have applied, etc) than the “name recognition” of a college named for a city matters not. And as an aside, how many confuse Miami of Ohio with U Miami. “Name recognition” can be confusing.
I feel like this part of the OP’s question has gotten lost in the 100+ replies.
We have an only child. We budgeted for $80K/year private school. She choose a school at half that cost. We did send her abroad, we did pay for some pretty cool non educational travel experiences, she got to live where she wanted without worrying about cost, and we did tell her that we’ll fund grad school if her company’s reimbursement policy changes (or she makes a career change). I do expect that when it’s time for her to get an MBA, she’ll be aiming for a top program.
I also feel like she didn’t make any compromises in choosing her undergrad school, and would argue that it does fall into the elite category…at least for engineering. Higher cost doesn’t always equal more elite.
