The 'rents are feeding me "5yearoldmusicalprodigy" stories...

<p>Just to add that the New York Music Festival has the latest deadline for application of any we have seen ( believe mid-May) and also allows students to stay longer than 2 weeks if that is what they signed up for. So they may have some flexibility. Most teachers are from Juilliard. Stringkeymom would know better, but I would think BUTI would be closed. You could also check with any conservatory or college summer program, especially conservatory. They have theory and solfege classes in the summer, as well as private lessons in composition and/or theory.</p>

<p>The summer between junior and senior year can be truly pivotal. Sometimes, spending a little money on that summer is worthwhile and brings scholarships later, so it can pay for itself long term.</p>

<p>But, again, am not clear on whether you want to do “contemporary classical” music or not.</p>

<p>If anyone has any sort of familiarity with what sort of piece would be deemed suitable for college, please speak out or PM me so I can send you an example of my work.</p>

<p>Spiritmanager: I do understand that most of these schools are classically oriented, however, I am up to it - AP Music Theory (the test for which I just took today) I think has prepared me very well for it. Besides, I’ve always been known to toss some flair into whatever I do.</p>

<p>“And yeah, I knew you meant that by Plan B - my non-musical plan Bs are GMU and JMU… but I was asking if anyone had any good schools with a decent but not uber hardcore music programs in mind.”</p>

<p>Also, I JUST got a suggestions/referral to an instructor in my area by USC admissions, so I’ll be looking into that.</p>

<p>Compmom: Well, watching the concert of students that have been going there is different from listening to pieces of people that have yet to go there, isn’t it?</p>

<p>I do have the drive to do this - I could’ve chosen Leadership/Business Administration or Creative Writing but I really do wish to pursue Composition.</p>

<p>I suppose Composition would be the more natural choice, since that’s what I want to actually MAJOR in - but I’ve heard Berklee wants formal instruction in the people they take, which I have none of…</p>

<p>I’m checking out the New York Summer Music Festival.</p>

<p>I would agree with what others have written, music composition is something that generally does happen later, and takes a lot of work to get proficient in it. Besides the fact that most ‘prodigies’ are in instrumental music (usually violin, cello or piano, simply because kids can play them earlier, and also because there isn’t that much cache in a composing prodigy as there is in having some little girl in a pink dress playing a violin concerto in Carnegie Hall), composition takes a lot of work in music theory (‘the mechanics’ as one composer called it), and also in simply listening to a variety of music to understand how composers translate ideas into music. Even coming out of grad programs, it seems to take composers a number of years to get there…</p>

<p>And many composers start late, maybe even later then you, so I wouldn’t sweat it, your folks are being, well, parents <em>smile</em>. If you were thinking of going into classical violin or piano getting ‘serious’ at your age, I would be saying something different,but for composition you aren’t ‘over the hill yet’ <em>lol</em>. One thing to keep in mind is that with composition I suspect that the people evaluating you are looking for potential, they don’t expect a student to be John Adams or Brahms, which is quite different then instrumental music in many cases (where high level programs assume the instrumentalist is already at a really high level, and they will be doing the tweaks to turn that into ‘supurb’).</p>

<p>And if you want to answer your parents about 5 year old prodigies, tell them you are quite proud not to have been one. The overwhelming majority of prodigies, the ones you see at age 8 playing the tchaikovsky violin concerto or whatever like some circus act, generally end up doing very little, most prodigies crash at an age younger then yourself, especially when they grow up and are no longer ‘cute’ (by my rough estimation, 99.9 percent of prodigies end up not amounting to much in music…). There is a difference between a child who starts young and works their way up through the reperatory and a prodigy, a significant one; prodigies are operating out of instinct IME, they don’t even really know how they can do what they do, and when they hit puberty that instinctive flair seems to disappear and they have to learn how to play again (Itzak Perlman talked about that, he said from the time he was about 13 to 18 he had to relearn to play; Yehudi Menuhin crashed when he was in his 20’s, and though still an incredible performer, lost the technical edge he had as a child prodigy, same with Janos Starker and others). Much better to find your passion later and have to work for it IMO then to be some sort of whiz at a young age and then struggle:)</p>

<p>I think one of the major issues here, Lencia, is that you seem to someone with a multitude of many musical interests that you wish to pursue. Your previous experience has brought you a large mix of multi-disciplinary hobbies regarding music.</p>

<p>You are interested in film scoring, audio recording/editing/engineering, composition, singing/performance, and working with extended multimedia.</p>

<p>However, the comments you are receiving here questioning whether you are aware of what these programs are about, have been made because the programs you are talking of applying to are very SINGLE-disciplinary - they are VERY focused and demand complete dedication and 110% of the student’s attention to that field and that field only. For example, NEC and Peabody offer a very straight-up hardcore conservatory lifestyle that you will have to commit to. Similarly, by studying “recording arts” (I’m not quite sure what this program is about, as I haven’t read up on their website) at Indiana, you might find that you will be spending all your time doing very technical audio engineering stuff like equalizing and mixing recordings of live concerts and studio sessions, that your creative side might feel hindered by the lack of attention directed to the actual music making part of the curriculum.</p>

<p>Maybe you might be a better fit looking at a general B.A. program that gives you more freedom to design your own curriculum and pursue multiple interests?</p>

<p>Just a few snacks for thought.</p>

<p>After consideration, I have chosen not to attend NYSMF - largely because of financial reasons, but there’s no guarantee that I’ll get into the program, and not gonna lie, it seems pretty daunting. Also, $1600 for only two hours of comp a day? N ty. </p>

<p>On the other hand, I’ve started contacting various resources in the area for a possible composition instructor. Stay tuned.</p>

<p>So… voice lessons or comp lessons?</p>

<p>strikingkeymom: But I have no formal training in voice… won’t that look bad? Also, would they be ticked if I put down a comp instructor under “formal instruction for primary instrument” even though my instrument is listed as voice? AND THE THING IS… Berklee doesn’t look ask you to send in a portfolio (I asked if I could, and they said it might not even be looked at), regardless of if you state your intended major Film Scoring, Contemporary Writing, or COmposition; and they still make you audition on something.</p>

<p>compmom: (I did get your PM btw, I’ll send some stuff along once they’re ready) Everyone I know (including my Oberlin fullride friend and my AP Theory/Choir instructor) says stylistically, I am definitely contemporary, not classical… Does ANYONE know any GOOD specifically contemporary composition focused music schools?</p>

<p>stephmin: Do you have any ideas of/know of any good music schools offering such a free BA degree? Because that sounds really appealing.</p>

<p>No good “music school” will offer such a degree - they all tend to offer BMs that require specialization.</p>

<p>But…most LACs have strong music departments. Sarah Lawrence, Brandeis, Bard (not the conservatory), Wesleyan, Bowdoin, and Vassar all come to mind immediately, with loads of others out there as well.</p>

<p>Also - lots of big universities also offer a BA with a focus in music. A bunch of the Ivies as well.</p>

<p>“Contemporary composition” covers a lot of possible ground. Are there any living composers in particular whose style you admire or seek to emulate? If so, do a bit of research and find out who taught them, where they may be teaching and where their students may be studying or teaching. That should help point you toward some programs and opportunities of interest. Also, check out the schools that people have recommended and find out who the composition teachers are there. Research them and listen to their compositions to see if what they are doing fits in with whatever it is that you define as contemporary composition. Realize that, with a few years of formal study under your belt, that definition could change a lot.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Lencias, I’m a bit confused about your use of “free”. If you mean it in terms of freedom to pursue multiple pursuits, the liberal arts options provided by stephmin and Oberlin’s TIMARA are probably the best bets.</p>

<p>If you mean free as in low or no cost, most BA liberal arts based programs will offer scholarship/grant money based on grades, stats and musical talent. Conservatory level BM programs will base their awards largely on the basis of perceived talent and potential as evidenced by audition and/or portfolio submissions as ranked within a specific applicant pool.
Full music tuition scholarships are not uncommon, but tend to be given to those at the very top of the food chain talent wise; full ride scholarships based on talent and potential are rarer still.</p>

<p>stephmin: sounds good. I’ll look into the liberal arts colleges, and some of the Ivies. Which Ivies in particular? I know Yale has a good one, but it’s only grad.</p>

<p>bassdad:
My orchestral musical influences/tastes/likes:
Michael Giacchino
Stephen Harwood (he is my pseudo private instructor)
Christopher Tin
Christopher Lennertz
Alan Silvestri
Harry Gregson-Williams
Bill Brown
John Williams
Michael Kamen
Koji Kondo
Joel Goldsmith
Jesper Kyd
Joris de Man
Howard Shore
Jeremy Soule
Tommy Tallarico
Jack Wall
[Immediate Music]
[ES Posthumus]</p>

<p>Other (non-orchestral) musical influences/tastes/likes:
Secondhand Serenade
Coldplay
Five for Fighting
Dashboard Confessional
Jason Mraz
The Fray
John Mayer
Train
The Killers
Jack Johnson</p>

<p>Don’t confuse Yale SOM and the Yale undergrad music department. The undergrad link is here [Yale</a> Department of Music > Undergraduate Program > The Music Major](<a href=“Welcome | Department of Music”>Welcome | Department of Music) It is a BA program, rooted in the academics of theory, history, and composition with a bit of flexibility to tailor it to a specific concentration.</p>

<p>Yale has a GREAT music department (note it is just that: “department”) at the undergraduate level. The graduate program is called the “Yale School of Music” and is a full scholarship and extremely selective program.</p>

<p>Princeton has an excellent reputation, as does Cornell (for composition). Harvard is another school with a decent music scene, and offers a double degree program with NEC. The performing arts center (“The HOP”) at Dartmouth is very active with quality student performances I’ve heard.</p>

<p>Yale has a very well respected undergrad and grad music program from what I understand. My only beef with the Yale Grad program is they seem to turn out composers who only produce Phillip Glass style music (several members of the program have done comission pieces for the New York Youth Symphony), either that is all they teach or someone at NYYS actually likes that stuff <em>lol</em>.</p>

<p>Lencias, I love Michael Giacchino, his music is something else! His score for the new Star Trek is a masterwork (my son says that score is better then anything John Williams has done, which isn’t a slight against John Williams, it is this score is a killer)…</p>

<p>That is an excellent list with which to start your research. Just looking up a handful of the names I immediately recognized, I see that those folks went to some very well known programs - Juilliard, Stanford, Berklee, Oxford, Royal College of Music (London), University of Southern California and so on. Note that not all of them started out as composition majors. Giacchino, for example, who is one of the most successful composers in film and TV these days, majored in film production and minored in history at the School of Visual Arts in Manhattan, but also studied composition at the Evening Division at Juilliard. Others did the music degree first then gravitated toward TV/film/game scoring. It seems that those who are the most successful in that business come from a wide variety of backgrounds, but they tend to be versatile in many different musical styles and they integrate knowledge across several different disciplines. </p>

<p>I don’t know if you have the academic stats for it, but one program that is frequently overlooked is the music department at MIT (yes, that MIT). They do not require auditions and will accept a portfolio if you care to provide one but will only consider it as part of your application package if they think it will help your case. I have a friend who graduated with a music degree from there and he is very good indeed at what he does. Check out <a href=“Massachusetts Institute of Technology |”>Massachusetts Institute of Technology |; for more info. You may also be interested in their free OpenCourseWare at <a href=“http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/courses/av/#MusicandTheaterArts[/url]”>http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/courses/av/#MusicandTheaterArts&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>What exactly do most “Music Studies” degrees call for anyway?</p>

<p>musicprnt:
Just started listening to the Star Trek soundtrack, mainly the end credits track. There are some bits in that piece that just shout MEDAL OF HONOR - its clear its a Giacchino piece. Haven’t listened to much else on the album yet, but what I have listened to I like. Giacchino I primarily like (as you can tell) for his older works on EA’s Medal of Honor franchise (original, Underground, Allied Assault, Frontline - Airborne was merely meh).</p>

<p>BassDad:
Chris (Tin, who I’m actually acquaintances with) is RCM, yep - although, I got no chance of going there, he went with the Fulbright scholarship.
Christopher Lennertz (who I’m also acquaintances with) went to USC</p>

<p>I’ve been blessed enough to know them well enough that they’ve both agreed to look at any pieces I finish.</p>

<p>It doesn’t seem that any of the Ivies - not that I’d even get in - really offer any sort of ‘focused’ music degrees, mostly just generic “music studies”… :'(</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This should help clarify some of the distinction between BA/BFA/BM degrees <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/561184-help-understanding-ba-vs-bfa-vs-bm.html?highlight=understanding[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/561184-help-understanding-ba-vs-bfa-vs-bm.html?highlight=understanding&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Music studies are a series of building blocks in specific disciplines, grouped largely around the major areas of performance, (instrumental or vocal), music theory, aural skills or solfege, music history and ethnomusicology, composition, conducting, music therapy, music education, pedagogy, music business/music management. Within each major area are specific specialty sub areas.</p>

<p>The best place to see the differences between degrees, focus and curriculum makeup is to compare specific degree requirements for each degree type and major field of study within and between schools. Look at the actual degree requirements accessible through the undergrad catalog. You’ll see the difference in requirements and areas of concentration required for specific disciplines… a BM in performance will require more credit hours in performance practice and ensemble participation than a theory or composition major for example; a comp major will require more theory and music history coursework.</p>

<p>The core subjects in all are coursework in music theory, aural training, piano skills, private individualized tutelage on an instrument (voice is an instrument), studio collaboration, large and small performance organization participatory experience, music history, normally a mandated attendance and critique requirement of live performances is an additional requirement. Coupled with all that, additional non music academic coursework and “x” number of music electives (discipline specific and cross discipline) will round out the course of study. In most programs an annual juried evaluation in the form of a recital, thesis or other body of work is an additional annual requirement for continuation in the program; these tend to be bi-annually in BA programs, or can be a final requirement prior to degree conference.</p>

<p>The core basics are the building blocks, and provide a thorough knowledge of standard practice and application, common influences, historical context, and geographic, ethnic, socio-political variations and offshoots. They provides a commonality of language and perspective, and develop essential skills required to function musically.</p>

<p>The BM is a preprofessional degree designed to position a candidate with the skills to function at a high within a specific specialty discipline; a BA is more likely to provide a broader overview, and a thorough knowledge of the basic discipline, with less concentration on a specific area.</p>

<p>" It doesn’t seem that any of the Ivies - not that I’d even get in - really offer any sort of ‘focused’ music degrees, mostly just generic “music studies”… :cry: "</p>

<p>Exactly - this is what we were recommending - a generic music BA that allows you to distribute your multiple musical interests evenly, rather than an extremely focused BM that involves you having to commit 100% to one specific undertaking.</p>

<p>Okay – to me you don’t sound like a fit for a generic BA so much as a fit for a specific set of transferable skills relating to the creation of music and the application of same to various media, possibly including production. In other words, a generator of musical content. So, I might be all wet here but I have a possible suggestion for you to investigate that is NOT a generic music BA, that DOES give the opportunity to study some composition and computer music, but still is not a BM and at the same time offers more composition opportunity than the Indianna/Jacobs program. (NOTE: You will want to notice that the RA at Jacobs program, while awesome, is NOT integrated with composition at that school and that the emphasis is very much on live reinforcement and capture. I have specifically asked the director about this slant vs. more composition-oriented curriculae. The program seems interested in distancing itself from electroacoustically-styled music, yet I suspect you’re a candidate to explore same due to computer music interest…). At any rate, maybe this is a fit for you, maybe not. If you’d like to know more re: portfolio, pm me. My son just went through a similar process these last two years, including the background deficit, and managed to find and win a spot at what he views to be his perfect fit. He is also an excellent creative writer and seriously interested in film and film scoring plus vg foley/music direction.</p>

<p>At University of Michigan School of Music and Dance, there is a small program called Performing Arts Technology that has FOUR curricula streams (with about 4 admits per section). A = BMus incl performance on principal instrument plus computer composing, programming, sound reinforcement, multimedia programming etc. Need competitive audition + portfolio to get in. B= BFA with a concentration in either music or visual/media arts. For B, you take music theory, composition, keyboard, programming etc. but do NOT have the BMus principal instrument/intensive performance hours requirement (although it is competitive to get in without a reasonable level of musical accomplishment in at least one instrument plus hard evidence of composition capability in written score as well as midi – however, you do not audition live but provide recording of acoustic play as well as electronic). C is BFA in media arts (fewer hardcore music courses, fewer theory requirements, etc.). D is in tandem with school of engineering for BS in sound engineering, reinforcement etc. For D, you must submit a multi-tracked and mixed live capture, have a min. gpa of 3.5 and min of 28 on ACT. Frankly, I’d recommend if you pursue this avenue that you submit same for any of the sections. It’s good experience to write, then play each part, then capture, then mix and you already have Logic so all you need is a little Alesis Multimix16 firewire or even an MBox (if you don’t need more than two tracks at a time) which you can get very cheaply today on Ebay (and to borrow a few condenser mics.)</p>

<p>As far as achieving acceptance to the program (I can only speak to Curriculum B)
my son took private music tech lessons summer of junior year which INCLUDED composition of contemporary and multitracked song (and gave access to great equipment). In his case, he had to take a course (dual enrollment) at local university to get more theory background as no AP offered in our district, and took a college keyboard class to improve midi interface and speed of composition. While he is section leader in his school’s jazz band as well as highest wind ensemble, he did not feel he was suited to a BMus performance stream because he “did not want to marry the trumpet” and because “the technology is my instrument.” As you might guess, like you, he plays many instruments but (at least in his case, don’t know about you : ) none of them with the level of focus or technical prowess that comes from a decade or more of private lessons, intensive rehearsal, or the other earmarks of a BMus candidate.</p>

<p>For portfolio requirements, they request that you electronically arrange any Bach fugue; include at least one original composition (written score), at least one electronic composition (midi is fine), acoustic capture of performance on instrument of your choice, and a set of created sound samples or soundscape (eg you can do this cheaply in a free mac program such as Audacity b/c MaxMSP is expensive.) etc.</p>

<p>With respect to your concerns about contemporary vs. classical in orientation, my son’s portfolio included a range of classical, jazz, alternative/indie rock, a very electroacoustic-styled soundscape, rockcomedy etc. The interview committee had told him they really liked the variety/range of his music. So you’d likely be welcomed with your eclectic mix of style-likes.</p>

<p>It’s a complex mix of courses that you definitely want to sit in on to get a feel for fit. My son sat in on classes at his three favorites, which included IU and NYU Tisch Clive Davis. (He likely would have loved USC as well but did not apply as did not want to go that far afield for undergrad.)</p>

<p>I don’t have much info on a pure composition stream but it sounds like you have those options well in hand as far as advice goes. I am posting this merely to give you a different approach/option to pursue or visit while you examine these programs. I do hope you’ve started visiting or plan to very early next year. Sitting in on classes and talking to students at work was the single most valuable thing my son did.
Meeting with the department head and asking a lot of questions, as well as listening to their own work, reading their papers, and investigating their musical backgrounds will also help you find your fit.</p>

<p>So no matter how much advice you get on this board, please go out in the field to form your assessments early on. The portfolios required at the better programs are very time intensive in addition to regular college applications and essays.</p>

<p>Good luck and cheers,
K</p>