The 'rents are feeding me "5yearoldmusicalprodigy" stories...

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Erm,
So, not gonna lie, I've discovered my real passion for music and composing rather late in my career, toward the middle of sophomore year. It isn't as if I hadn't done music before that - I'd been in band for 5 years, done some choir and such, but it was then I really discovered I loved music over anything else...</p>

<p>I lead the men's a Cappella at my school and have professionally arranged for local high school orchestras (complete history here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/708438-music-schools-chances-admission.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/708438-music-schools-chances-admission.html&lt;/a&gt;), and I'd like to think I'm good at composing - my friend, who graduated from my school and is a professional video game composer, says my stuff is good and that I have talent...</p>

<p>On the other hand, my parents, while supportive, tell me stories of musical prodigies that have been studying music since they were 5 whom I'll be going up against in the admissions process. I'm hoping that because I'm looking to apply for Composition (and related) majors, this won't truly be the case, but not sticking strictly necessarily to the 5yearold example, is this really the case? Am I really screwed?</p>

<p>Schools on list:
Berklee, USC, Indiana, NEC, Peabody.</p>

2

<p>You will see a lot of applicants in strings and piano who have been studying that long, not so many in composition.</p>

3

<p>The trick is to know your level and ability, and have an unbiased professional opinion of your competitiveness within an audition/applicant pool.</p>

4

<p>Write to professors at these schools, and ask if you can send them scores and cds. They will be able to provide much more relevant feedback than we possibly can.</p>

5

<p>Do you have a teacher? Get a private teacher, preferably someone in a college music department or a conservatory, or someone with experience in those places, who you can study with and also who can give you some feel for how your music will fare in admissions. You can also place a piece in a competition (state music teachers’ award for instance) and attend a summer program where you can also assess your work and get it performed.</p>

<p>Try to get pieces performed by good musicians, and recorded on CD’s, so that you can send these along with your scores when you apply. It is worth it to pay a little if need be.</p>

<p>Plenty of kids start later than you and do very well w/admissions in composition.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for the replies, everyone, keep them coming!</p>

<p>Fiddlefrog: I’ve just emailed the Computer Music professor at Peabody, whom I’ve had previous contact with, just as you suggested.</p>

<p>Compmom: I have a pseudo private instructor - he is a professional video game composer, pretty much exactly what I want to be, and was the composer for Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30. He has practically taken on the role of my mentor and has said he would be willing to review any piece I wrote and do whatever to help me in the college admissions process, including writing me a supplementary recommendation, which I thought was pretty badass. </p>

<p>And for recordings, I will most likely just use MIDI, since I am skilled with Logic and various sample libraries.</p>

7

<p>Lencias, </p>

<p>Even if you have a “pseudo private instructor” who will give you a supplemental recommendation, I think it would be a good idea for you to also begin taking actual lessons from a private composition teacher as soon as possible if you are not doing this already. While it is possible (?) that a program you apply to would be impressed by a letter from a successful composer of video game music who would vouch for your talent, a letter of recommendation from a composition teacher who you have studied with over an extended period of time would have much more credibility. (Also, if you don’t have an actual composition teacher who knows you well and can write your main letter of recommendation, the letter from the “pseudo private instructor” no longer is supplemental and might even detract from your application.) But more important than the recommendation that a private teacher would provide, is that you actually would LEARNING from this teacher and probably end up with a better portfolio of compositions to submit than if you did this all yourself. </p>

<p>Also, since you have mentioned being interested in applying to composition, computer music and film scoring programs, it is really important to look carefully about what these programs want you to submit and have compositions for the applications that are appropriate to the individual program requirements. You probably will need to submit actual scores as well as recordings to some programs. </p>

<p>Also, you should try to listen to music composed by faculty and past/present students of the programs you have identified. </p>

<p>If you are applying for composition as well as computer music programs, you should seriously consider compmom’s recommendation about getting your compositions performed by good musicians and recorded. This not only would sound better than the midi recordings, it gives you some credibility as a composer, that actual musicians performed your music, and ideally, that they performed it for an audience. Depending on where you live, there may be composition workshops you could enroll in, some of which may have the possibility of student musicians who would perform a composition you were working on in the program. Or maybe students from your school’s band/orchestra would be interested in performing one of your compositions. It may be too late for this now, but there may be some composition or computer music summer programs that still have openings. </p>

<p>Finally, as to the question of competing against the “prodigy at age 5” type of musician, I would not be so concerned with that. But realistically, some kids who are interested in composing may have studied an instrument since the age of 5, which might be a slight advantage, even if they were not “prodigies.” </p>

<p>Many students do not get serious about composing until some time in high school, but such students often begin study with private composition teachers, attend summer programs, get their compositions performed, enter competitions, etc. Additionally, the programs you are interested in - Berklee, USC, Indiana, NEC, Peabody - get large numbers of applicants. So you should probably think about safety schools and some kind of Plan B. I do not mean to say you will not get accepted to the programs you want. Music programs are so competitive, I think that most prospective music majors should identify a safety school and have considered some kind of alternative plan like the possibility of a different major, taking a gap year, etc. in case things don’t work out.</p>

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<p>It is most certainly not rare at all for composition majors to decide on their career path relatively late.</p>

<p>In fact, it is very rare to find 5 year old composer prodigies, and even then, those prodigies never seem to be able to grow up to ever become being taken seriously by the members of musical academia. In composition at least, I find that little prodigies are almost always products of sensationalized public attitudes - i.e. “oh look that’s so cute - he’s such a genius for his age!” and in fact it is hard for them to ever grow up and get out of that image in which he will always be viewed. Heck even Mozart - the quintessential child prodigy - struggled deeply with this!</p>

<p>To a much greater point than compared with performers, composers need different ingredients to build their success from. A great deal of mental maturity is required, as is a major amount of cultural awareness, artistic perspective, advanced objective and subjective reasoning, and even life experience; in order for one to be at the level needed to be making worthwhile contributions to the furthering and advancement of the artform. (An art form already deeply drenched in a long and illustrious history.) That’s why composers generally do not really ever gain momentum going in their careers until their late 30s or early 40s, even if they are super skilled and great networkers.</p>

<p>So…I don’t think you are at the bottom of the pile in terms of experience. Your background will be worse than a lot of applicants, similar to a lot of applicants, and better than a lot of the applicants you will be competing with. But of course it is virtually impossible to tell what your level is, and how attractive you will be to any specific program. Do keep in mind, that with the exception of Berklee, all the other schools will be solely focused on creating ‘art music’. Commercial or anything remotely similar to any type of mainstream music (including but not limited to pop, rock, folk, film, video game, and occasionally even jazz) is not what is taught, and in many cases even so far as looked down upon.</p>

<p>I do second suggestions of other posters - study with a private instructor; get your works read/performed/recorded; and investigate some safety programs. The schools you currently have listed are some pretty renowned programs, amongst the best composition destinations in the United States (esp USC, Indiana, NEC) and all very selective admits.</p>

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<p>Just want to add that some schools do not accept MIDI recordings, others do: you might want to check requirements of specific schools. Recordings of musicians playing your pieces are better, even if MIDI’s are okay.</p>

<p>Also, some schools require or like at least one hand-written score. Oberlin does, for one (and that might be a program you should look into, particularly TIMARA). NYU is another one you might want to look at.</p>

<p>For applications, you send in scores that are bound (a copy place can help you with this) and CD’s that are well-labelled. It is nice if everything is neatly and “professionally” packaged according to the instructions given by each school. </p>

<p>Walden School in Dublin NH is a wonderful composition program that takes place in July. They have a website. You could see if there are openings. Also the New York State Music Festival in Oneanta. Or, as many have said, maybe start studying with a teacher this summer (although many are off teaching at summer programs) or this fall.</p>

<p>At your age, so much can happen in just a few months. If you get the right teacher, you might just take off! Good luck!</p>

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<p>keep in mind that most people can’t reach a certain level of play without putting x hours in. with composition, its much more instinctual, and its something that cant be learned.</p>

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<p>rigaudon: The AP Music Theory/Chorus teacher that will be writing me a (very good) recommendation is a teacher that I have known for a very long time (since the beginning of freshman year) and I will also be taking Principles of Composition as a class with him next year. Will this make up for the long-term composition instruction that I do not have?</p>

<p>As a checklist:
Berklee: Does not ask for a portfolio submission, if submitted, may not even be looked at.
Peabody: MIDI mockups are probably the norm for Computer Music
Indiana U: A variety of audio-visual items accepted as part of portfolio
USC: MIDI mockups accepted.
NEC: *Need to check…</p>

<p>I was actually planning to get voice lessons over the summer to prepare for Berklee and JMU auditions, since I’ve never had formal vocal training before… which should I go for, comp lessons or voice lessons? I’d never even heard of private composition instructors before today. The only school that I think would even accept a rec from my “pseudo private instructor” I think is Berklee.</p>

<p>And on your point of credibility, any instructor I’d have studied with I would only have had for a maximum of 6 months… that’s not terribly long. </p>

<p>I’ve been playing some sort of instrument at every point in my life since I was like 8, just never really stuck to one.</p>

<p>Already listening to a buttload of music from LOTR (Howard Shore, USC), Back to the Future (Alan Silvestri, Berklee), The Host (Lee Byung-woo, Peabody Institute), and John Mayer (Berklee).</p>

<p>Do you have any decent “safe Plan B” music schools you could recommend?</p>

<p>stephmin: See question above. Indiana U I’d be applying for Recording Arts, not composition.</p>

<p>compmom: I might message you at a later point in time about the “bound” scores and such (since I have no idea that means).</p>

<p>Walden looks pretty good, but very costly, and I don’t have the 1 year formal instruction requirement they have :(</p>

<p>I just emailed the GMU professor in composition to see if he offered private lessons.</p>

<p>tragictravisty: Well, I think that’s a good thing in my case :)</p>

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<p>MIDI mockups are probably not the norm for computer music. </p>

<p>Computer music - is an interesting field; pretty varied. The term is interchangeable with electronic music, electroacoustic music, digital composition, sound art, sonic art, musique conqrete, tape music, etc etc.</p>

<p>Computer music programs are not looking for traditionally scored music for instruments, and realized via MIDI or even higher quality samples. It is its own little subgenre of art music, and is usually focused on various ways of creating source sounds via audio synthesis (additive, subtractive, granular, frequency modulation, logarithmic, etc etc) as well as sequencing, equalizing, and sampling these sounds.</p>

<p>The computer music program at Peabody (and everywhere in general) is likely to be very artistic-based, not not commercial. Exceptions exist for everything of course, but its a good bet. These composers are usually very forward looking and innovative, always trying to push the envelope of auditory perception, and trying to alter ways of listening to sound, as well as the way sound interacts with its space. Such a program will be VERY different than say a film-scoring course at Berklee or a “Recording Arts” program anywhere, or even a straight up composition program; and the music produced will be a world away from Lord of The Rings or John Mayer!</p>

<p>Just checking that you understood fully what “computer music” meant and entailed.
;)</p>

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<p>“keep in mind that most people can’t reach a certain level of play without putting x hours in. with composition, its much more instinctual, and its something that cant be learned.”</p>

<p>That’s not really fair, in that it’s sort of implying that composers don’t have to work so hard because it’s just “instinctual” - you either can do it or you don’t. I’d have to disagree. While yes, innate talent is important, it always needs to be cultivated and developed, not unlike a performer.</p>

<p>You will find that at any level - a composer will be judged by the quality of his music as well as his experience - again not unlike a performer.</p>

<p>If anything, I might argue it takes MUCH longer to foster a composer to reach a professional mature level in his music making than a performer. From a previous post:
“A great deal of mental maturity is required, as is a major amount of cultural awareness, artistic perspective, advanced objective and subjective reasoning, and even life experience; in order for one to be at the level needed to be making worthwhile contributions to the furthering and advancement of the artform. (An art form already deeply drenched in a long and illustrious history.) That’s why composers generally do not really ever gain momentum going in their careers until their late 30s or early 40s, even if they are super skilled and great networkers.”</p>

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<p>Lencias, sorry if my comments made things sound more complicated. I am reluctant to write any more, but just a few clarifications/comments and that will be all from me. </p>

<p>When I mentioned safety school or a plan B, I meant something that would be more of a sure thing, some much easier-to-get-into program than the ones you have listed. I just read a little about that Recording Arts program and according to information in the FAQ section, they accept roughly 25% of the applicants. That to me is not a safety, as it may be just as difficult to get into as the other programs, it is just a different kind of program. </p>

<p>Are you considering the voice lessons because you are going to have to do auditions at some of these schools when applying to the composition/computer music programs or because you are serious about vocal performance and want to study that in college as well as composition? No matter what, I have very little knowledge on issues having to do with vocal study or auditions, but a lot of other people who post here are very knowledgable in that area. </p>

<p>As to the potential value of a private composition instructor, I tried to emphasize that this would NOT be mainly about getting a recommendation, but that you could learn a lot from the right teacher, and this might result in your developing more as a composer, even in six months and maybe having a better portfolio for your college applications. And even if schools on the list accept midi format for compositions, that may be the minimum accepted. A lot of applicants will be doing more (e.g., having their compositions performed). </p>

<p>Now I may be totally wrong, but you sound like someone with a greater interest in commercial/mainstream music than contemporary classical music or experimental (?) computer music. When I suggested you listen to the compositions of professors and past/present students in those programs you have chosen, I did not mean just those who had commercial success like the people you mentioned. I agree with stephmin’s comment in her first post on this thread, that with the exception of Berklee, the other schools you are considering “will be solely focused on creating ‘art music’. Commercial or anything remotely similar to any type of mainstream music (including but not limited to pop, rock, folk, film, video game, and occasionally even jazz) is not what is taught, and in many cases even so far as looked down upon.” </p>

<p>So you also might want to try to identify more schools that are similar to Berklee in including a commercial music focus. There are probably threads on this site that list such schools. </p>

<p>And I also strongly disagree with the idea that “with composition, it’s much more instinctual, and its something that can’t be learned.” But I guess you don’t really believe that either, since you are intending to major in composition.</p>

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<p>No, no, rigaudon, it’s fine…</p>

<p>And yeah, I knew you meant that by Plan B - my non-musical plan Bs are GMU and JMU… but I was asking if anyone had any good schools with a decent but not uber hardcore music programs in mind.</p>

<p>I’m only thinking of taking voice lessons because Berklee has a performance audition for your principal instrument regardless of your desired major, and I figure I need some formal instruction to write down on the app… but none of the other schools I’m looking to apply to require a performance audition for Composition/related majors.</p>

<p>So voice or composition lessons?</p>

<p>And I simply don’t have to resources to do a live recording at the moment, unless I decided to do a relatively simple string quartet piece, for which I do have a spectacular string quartet on hand (they owe me because I’ve arranged for them twice)…</p>

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<p>Why would the string quartet have to be ‘relatively simple?’ You have until Dec. 1 at the earliest to submit your scores and recordings for these programs. That should be plenty of time to compose, rehearse and record.</p>

<p>I have to agree with Stephmin and rigaudon, however. It’s unclear whether or not you understand what these composition departments are about. You may be setting yourself up to be miserable, if admitted.</p>

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<p>Is it possible for your to go to some student composers concerts at any of the schools that you are interested in? That might be clarifying for you.</p>

<p>Your previous post says that you are writing a full orchestral piece with choir. That is very ambitious for someone who is not working privately! </p>

<p>It is unclear what your goals are from your posts. You mention singing versus composition lessons and are not clear on which is a priority. The schools you mention vary widely, as does the major you indicate for each (composition versus recording arts versus film scoring).</p>

<p>On the other hand, it is also possible that you are sort of an undeveloped talent in composing. Do you have a drive to do this, or is it just an idea for a major or for a career?</p>

<p>If you feel strongly drawn to composing, and really want to do the kind of composing of “art music” that others have referred to, I strongly (again) suggest somehow getting a teacher this summer, writing that string quartet, having a quartet read it, working on is some more, then recording a performance. The whole process will be a revelation and your skills may really take a leap.</p>

<p>Money may be an issue, too. Perhaps that high school teacher could help you out and do some lessons, find musicians, generally take you under his or her wing. Even that would be great thing to do.</p>

<p>Walden has financial aid but it is late in the season for that. Check out the New York Music Festival site. They have workshops that are anywhere from 2-6 weeks. You can go for 2 weeks, only, and then opt to stay for another two.</p>

<p>This is a pivotal summer to figure some things out. If you are drawn to singing, take singing lessons, and if you are drawn to composition, take composition lessons. If you are drawn to both but don’t have the funds for lessons in both, then choose.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

18

<p>

Our HS band was always very cooperative with student composers, allowing their works to be performed in the concerts when possible and recorded through the school’s system. From small ensemble to full band. I would suppose the orchestra was the same. It is another resource. A director can also tell what can work and what needs more thought.</p>

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<p>What are you doing in the summer? Have you looked into a summer composition program? I know that the application deadlines for many have passed, but there may be some with slots. My son went to BUTI for composition the summer between junior and senior year, and it made a huge difference. His composition background was quite a bit thinner than yours.</p>

20

<p>I think you are pursuing all the correct avenues. I’d like to emphasize the importance of music theory, probably over voice study at this point (unless voice is going to be an important part of your musical studies–I notice you are very involved in choral groups). For theory and composition, piano is probably the most important instrument to learn and knowing piano helps get the theory to where it needs to be. I am guessing that from all the choral work you’ve done, you have the necessary vocal musicianship skills for Berkelee’s audition.
If money is not a problem, I would follow the good advice suggested here about summer music programs. Boston University’s school of fine arts is another possibility in addition to music festivals and would put you in proximity to Berkelee School of Music. You could make contact with teachers there over the summer in composition, voice, etc. and get to know the students.</p>