<p>Im interested in what parents think about them. They were, of course, extremely prestigious when the Ivies were not coed. Do you think they still are? Do they have more prestige than their academics deserve? Or the opposite?</p>
<p>I thought Id ask in the Parents Forum because some have probably watched these colleges change as other colleges became coed. Thanks.</p>
<p>Here in the Rocky Mountain West/Northwest I don't think very many people have ever heard of them.</p>
<p>Well, first I have to admit that I am a graduate of Wellesley, and that I entered college shortly after Yale went coed, but before Dartmouth did. So it was right around the cusp. They were still very prestigious then.</p>
<p>I think that if you take a glance at the dreaded USN&WR rankings you will see that they are still prestigious, Wellesley in particular. :) </p>
<p>I'm not really familiar with the academics at the other Sisters, so I won't comment. But I would venture to guess that most of them are slightly less prestigious than they deserve to be in the minds of the ill-informed because of the usual sexist assumptions surrounding anything that is all female.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is also true that "the man in the street" probably hasn't heard of Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst, Bowdoin, or Pomona either.</p>
<p>Seven Sisters alum here. I think they're still prestigious: compared to most schools in the country, they have low acceptance rates and their students have high test scores and gpas, plus interesting interests and extracurriculars. Of course, women have more options than they did decades ago, but these are still excellent schools. </p>
<p>Their reputations vary, and aren't always accurate: my college has been portrayed as a white-gloves-and-pearls finishing school, as well as a hotbed of liberalism and deviance. The truth, of course, is something wholly different, but including aspects of both. </p>
<p>My school has made a real focus in recent years of increasing socioeconomic diversity and I think that's wonderful. It means that students come in with a really wide range of academic preparation, and a class that's easy for one student may be tough for another. I probably could have attended a school that forced me to work harder, but instead I got to CHOOSE to work hard, picking tough classes and doing independent research, and I think that's a better learning experience. </p>
<p>My two favorite aspects of my Seven Sisters school (and probably other women's colleges, too) were:
a) the complete support I felt from faculty and staff at all levels (accessibility for review sessions, mock interviews to prepare me for fellowships, serving on committees, the president of the college writing one of my grad school recommendations, etc.). It was not uncommon for a professor to host a dinner for his or her class, and I remember one of my friends' advisers bringing his family to a couple of her swim meets.</p>
<p>b) the incredible network of brilliant, kind, women I was able to form. I really did make friends for life in college. But the network goes well beyond students at a single college in a single year--there's a certain bond at my grad school among alumnae from women's colleges, and I have been advised by, and given advice to, many alumnae who are at different points in their careers in my field.</p>
<p>Can't say for all PNW, but the Sisters' info session in Seattle was packed like a can of sardines! However, D's blue-collar suburban school turned one of the reps away because of the "low interest" (only one girl signed up).</p>
<p>My informal "polls" of the parents in my neck of the woods also indicated that not too many folks heard of Pomona, Williams, CMC, Haverford, etc. When I told them D was in at Lewis and Clark and Linfield, a lot of them went "Wow, those are GREAT schools! Your D must be very smart!" I bet not too many on the East coast heard of Linfield.</p>
<p>Seven Sisters alum here. </p>
<p>These are schools for certain women. Not everyone that is for sure. They remain the place for young women serious about their academics who benefit from a supportive community without regard to traditional gender roles. Clearly if a young women is looking for frat parties and football they should keep looking.</p>
<p>Ideal candidates are those comfortable in a small liberal arts setting where emphasis is not on social life. Not to imply that she would be consigned to a monastery for four years but let's be honest here dating a a bit more challenging. I would especially recommend the experience for young women looking for a career in the sciences. Where the reputation of women's colleges shine (compared to women in co-ed environments) is their contribution to the ranks of science.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks for all the informative responses. </p>
<p>Another question: do you think the overall quality of the student body has changed? I'm not asking this to be mean but I noticed that the middle 50% of SAT scores are fairly low. Obviously SAT scores are not everything and many of these schools claim to have a holistic approach, but I do think it says something. Is this a change in the students or was it the same 20 or so years ago? </p>
<p>Statistics like these led me to believe that perhaps the Seven Sisters have a greater reputation (at least in the east) than they might academically deserve. I often hear them compared to other top LACs (coed) but by numbers they don't seem that similar. On the other hand, like Triguena mentioned, they do seem like much more intellectual environments than other, perhaps more highly ranked, colleges. </p>
<p>I may be just putting too much weight on numbers. </p>
<p>Triguena, I applied to some of the Seven Sisters because of their strong science departments. Glad to hear an alum confirming that!</p>
<p>There is a well-respected poster on the parents' forum who has a daughter at Smith, and here is what he had to say about "numbers":</p>
<p>As mini points out the women's schools attract strong students- but as most schools have flung their doors wide open to women ( indeed, some schools have more female applicants than male), they do have a disadvantage in attracting some of those students- however- some students are also * attracted* to the women's colleges because of their focus.</p>
<p>I can say that I know several students who are attending/ graduated from women's colleges, who had initially not considered them seriously, however the education combined with generous merit/need packages make them a strong choice.</p>
<p>I couldn't get my daughter to even look however-which surprised me since I thought for someone who * already* was out, it would at least be a possibility.- :confused:</p>
<p>Be sure and visit if you can- also you probably already realize that a womens college doesn't mean that there are no male profs or students.</p>
<p>Also depending on major- it may or may not be a good fit- my D was actually disappointed at some of the class offerings that were given " hard science" status. ( we didn't visit, but looked at course catalogs, talked to reps at her school & fairs)</p>
<p>I've also been amused at the lack of homework over breaks when my daughter and friends had tons of homework at their co-ed schools- however- as in high school when they say " I don't have any homework" it isn't necessarily so!</p>
<p>emeraldkity4--When I was at Wellesley, the term-paper writing services reportedly guaranteed a B at any school in the Boston area--including Harvard--except Wellesley, where they guaranteed a C. The amount of reading and the number of papers required in courses far exceeded that at most co-ed schools. I knew someone whose twin was as Stanford, for example, and she reported that Stanford was ridiculously easy in comparison. MIT students who cross registered for Wellesley classes in the humanities often dropped them because they were too much work, and the grades were too low. </p>
<p>Of course, difficult grading and loading on the work doesn't necessarily mean better education. MIT humanities were pretty much a joke then, but I had the impression that subjects such as math were taught in a much more intellectually stimulating way at MIT: less memorization, more problem solving.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I remember watching MIT friends "study" for a course they were taking at Harvard Med. They flipped through the text, saying, "I understand that, I enderstand that, I understand that....done. " I tried to tell them that MIT was unusual and that it was likely that they would be expected to memorize the content as well as understand it. They didn't believe me, and were astonished by the bad grades that resulted.</p>
<p>I think that a very large number of women who forty or so years ago would have gone to a Seven Sisters school now would go to a previously all-male college. However, I think that the overall rise in number of applicants (particularly female) to college over the past decades has offset this.</p>
<p>So academically, I think the schools are better than they were forty years ago. But prestige-wise, they have probably suffered in that there are a lot of other places the most qualified female applicants look to go.</p>
<p>Well, my d. turned down #1 LAC (my alma mater) to attend Smith - much better language departments, much better early music program, better study abroad options (Florence) (in other words, simply better academics in her areas of interest), five-college opera company, less emphasis on athletics, much less drinking, much more socioeconomic diversity, much better town.</p>
<p>It seems to have worked. She now has a very hefty 5-year graduate fellowship in musicology/Italian studies to Princeton.</p>
<p>*knew someone whose twin was as Stanford, for example, and she reported that Stanford was ridiculously easy in comparison. MIT students who cross registered for Wellesley classes in the humanities often dropped them because they were too much work, and the grades were too low. *</p>
<p>Oh I would probably agree with Stanford- that is a big university- my Dr. who attended Stanford has told me several times that her sister who attended Pomona got a much stronger education ( she is still an excellent physician however)</p>
<p>I don't really know what a term paper writing service is though- is that like a tutoring clinic?</p>
<p>The kids that I was comparing Smith to- were attending Reed , Princeton & Carleton, majoring in bio,history & chem, accordingly. ( the Smith student was majoring in lit) The Reedie I know the best, her courses were very writing intensive, in fact she didn't even have time to read a magazine on the train until she graduated because of class demands.</p>
<p>She did say that even though the mandatory freshman Hum 110 course had a reading list of 18+ required books a semester and shared other similarities with the U Chicago Humanities courses, the U Chicago students claimed they read all the books cover to cover! ( I think the Reedies like to take more chances that the tests will be on parts they read) :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I think a lot of how much time you spend on your studies depends on many things. Your profs, your learning style, your classes, how hard you want to work...
For instance I am currently taking horticulture classes from a community college and they are much more difficult than any regular college class I have taken before. The amount of material to process is huge- I just finished a soils class for example & while it was only one qtr, the work could have easily been spread over a whole year.</p>
<p>( and as mini could probably point out- his wifes college program was more competitive than Harvard ;) )</p>
<p>A term paper writing service is a place where they will sell you a paper. Cheating, in other words. </p>
<p>To me, such things are just about urban legend. I've never known anyone who actually did it.</p>
<p>The issue I've had with Smith is that they got their FIRST female president in the 1970s. I've always been astonished by that. But it's a great place, and I guess they've seen the light on the feminist role model thing since then. :)</p>
<p>Another seven sisters alum here. They still maintain their prestige, phenomenal educational programs, alumni networks throughout the world, and focus on encouraging their students to think, question, challenge, explore, problem-solve, etc. I think Stacy did a nice job of summing up the focus of the 7 sisters. By the way, even though 1 of the schools is now coed, and one is subsumed under another school, I believe they are still considered a "sister". There are still 7 sisters, IMO. I don't think Vassar got disowned, and even though Radcliffe became part of Harvard, alums of Radcliffe still, I believe, consider themselves a "sister" school alum. They are great schools with great reputations that are well deserved. There are many excellent schoos that don't have the "name" recognition they deserve. That doesn't make them any less superb as institutions of higher learning.</p>
<p>"The issue I've had with Smith is that they got their FIRST female president in the 1970s. I've always been astonished by that. But it's a great place, and I guess they've seen the light on the feminist role model thing since then."</p>
<p>That's a funny thing. Wellesley had women presidents from its earliest days, but almost all male boards of trustees. Smith exactly the opposite.</p>
<p>The other thing that Smith had that #1 LAC (actually all the other LACs and Ivies she looked at) didn't was paid research assistantships in areas of greatest interest for a select group of students beginning in the first year. That, in fact, was what my d. parlayed into her graduate school fellowship. Originally, there were all in the sciences (it is a major center for molecular biology disease research - <a href="http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/Biology/faculty_swilliams.html)%5B/url%5D">http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/Biology/faculty_swilliams.html)</a>, but have expanded into all the social sciences and humanities.</p>
<p>Vassar still maintains its Seven Sisters status, in part, I believe, because it maintains one all girls dorm as a requirement.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4, I had a similar concern – when I visited Smith it became apparent they considered psychology a science, which really worried me. However, in the area of science I’m interested in most of the Seven Sisters seem to be good. I was lucky enough to visit the campuses of most of the schools. </p>
<p>Mini, Congrats to your daughter! She sounds pretty amazing. I’m glad to hear about the research assistant positions available, as I’m hoping to do something along those lines. However, after having visited and read many bios of the science professors, it seems as though there are fewer labs and fewer professors who are involved in active research than at other comparable colleges…. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Basically I’d like to know if these opportunities are readily available. The schools say they are but I’d like someone else’s opinion. </p>
<p>I’m glad to hear the general consensus is that the Seven Sisters are actually better academically than their reputations would tell. It’s better than the other way around!</p>
<p>
[quote]
When I was at Wellesley, the term-paper writing services reportedly guaranteed a B at any school in the Boston area--including Harvard--except Wellesley, where they guaranteed a C. The amount of reading and the number of papers required in courses far exceeded that at most co-ed schools. I knew someone whose twin was as Stanford, for example, and she reported that Stanford was ridiculously easy in comparison. MIT students who cross registered for Wellesley classes in the humanities often dropped them because they were too much work, and the grades were too low.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How do students fare in graduate school admissions especially the ones that weight GPA like Law and Medical school?</p>
<p>mini: Congratulations on your daughter's success! Mazel tov. That's incredible. I'm so happy for her/you.</p>
<p>twinmom: You know how much I love Vassar but when they discriminate against qualified women in admissions decisions to maintain a 40/60 ratio I do think they lose their seven sisters status.</p>
<p>USNWR is not a indication of the prestige of the program. For instance, Bryn Mawr has slightly lower admissions stats (SAT's) but higher grad placements than the others.</p>
<p>Barnard's endowment does not compare well because it shares so many resources with Columbia. One of D's majors is at Barnard, one at Columbia so we think that that is a lot of hooey.</p>
<p>I would argue against the idea that Wellesley is more prestigious or elite. Barnard's acceptance rate is considerably lower.</p>
<p>All these schools are equally excellent and carry their own cache, as mini's daughter's success attests. Brava!</p>