The story begins: a thread for rising seniors

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
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<p>gc03 - You are right. I should go for it if I can get all of them scheduled in those 3 days. I am going to start a new thread asking for peoples’ experiences with scheduling.</p>

<p>EmmyBet and DonCC - I get most of my info and opinions about where I stand in my craft, education and the type of programs I should try for from my coach. She used to make her living as a professional actress and is like my surrogate stage mom. She doesn’t usually approve of BFAs for the same reasons as the person Fishbowlfreshman quoted on the “Anyone else going to Tisch …” thread. She, however, thinks I should do a BFA because of my type, but only if I can get in one of the “tippy-top” schools with high class hours or a British school. I would be better off getting a quick college degree and then taking studio classes in LA if I can’t get in one of those since I am more physically suited for film acting. I could do a masters later if I decided I wanted to teach or make up for the missed classical training. </p>

<p>I could have graduated from high school this year had my mother let me and I will not be taking any classes on my high school’s campus this year. Everything will be at my community college. I already took some classes there last year and I have three AP classes. I could go to any college in my state with only a major to finish and do that in two years with one more semester after this year. I can DO theater where I live and don’t have any interest in any of the theater departments around here. </p>

<p>I am not the least bit worried about staying at home. Most of my friends that are my age will stay in state. Some of them will stay right here in my city and some others will be right there with me at community college before they transfer to a four year school. Lots of people do that. I’m not into all the beer parties and college football rah rah stuff so I don‘t think I will be missing much. Some who have transferred say that the profs at community college are sometimes better teachers anyway.</p>

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<p>Thanks for explaining - it sounds like you have found a plan that works for you, and I wish you all the best.</p>

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<p>Tenyearplan, you seem remarkably focused and mature for a person your age. I’ve gotten the impression that not many younger people read through the older CC posts as thoroughly and deeply as you have.</p>

<p>The only piece of practical info I can offer is that when my son auditioned for Boston University in New York during Unifieds, it did not take very long. (For CMU, there was a lot of waiting because the MT and Acting kids were all auditioning at the same time. NYU also took longer because of the large numbers of auditioners…and I think I’ve read on here that they’ve added a physical warmup.) </p>

<p>In addition, I think things go faster in Chicago because, as I understand it, all of the auditions are in a single building.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you!!</p>

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<p>@tenyearplan - here’s a little info on your original post that might help you!</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>My daughter is a junior in USC’s BFA program and my son will be freshman in the Fall. I just checked her schedule and this past semester she was in theatre classes 36 hours a week. This included her sophomore show, but that is also part of the curriculum and degree. </p>

<p>Re: teachers leaving. I checked with my daughter and there is only one teacher who will no longer be teaching in the BFA program next year because he is starting a new theatre company. Otherwise the acting, voice and movement teachers all have been teaching there for many, many years. However, you do not have the same acting, movement or voice teacher all 4 years (hope this makes sense!). This gives you the opportunity to work with different styles and methods.</p>

<p>USC’s School of Theatre program also gives you the opportunity to work with different directors and guest directors.</p>

<p>Hope this clarifies things for you!</p>

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<p>tenyearplan’s information on NYU studio time is also not correct. I have a kid who went to NYU/Tisch and studio was three days per week from 9 to 6 with a lunch break. This doesn’t count rehearsals every night and weekends.</p>

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<p>The class hours in NYU’s New Studio for Acting come to 17 according to the schedule they have on the website. They are 17.5 for mt. Look on the jpeg link under downloads. [The</a> New Studio on Broadway: Tisch School of the Arts at NYU](<a href=“http://drama.tisch.nyu.edu/object/dr_newstudio]The”>http://drama.tisch.nyu.edu/object/dr_newstudio) Would that differ much from the other studios? I saw on an old Tisch blog where an Atlantic student said they spend more time in classes than the others but it was one of those silly studio rivalry fights where he was dissing Adler and Strasberg and didn‘t give any specifics. Someone on the Tisch mt group also said he did not put up his scenes but around every two weeks. I don’t remember which but it was one of the acting studios.</p>

<p>I got my info on USC by looking at their requirements and then looking at the class times on their course scheduler and adding them up. I didn’t save it, but it came out about the same. </p>

<p>In comparison, here is a sample UNCSA freshman schedule. [NCSA</a> | Drama Example Schedule](<a href=“http://www.uncsa.edu/drama/FI_Schedule_SpringStudio1.html]NCSA”>http://www.uncsa.edu/drama/FI_Schedule_SpringStudio1.html) I count 24.5 hours. Guthrie and Rutgers were about the same number and Suny Purchase was more. A student from BU told me hers was in the same league but I haven’t been able to confirm it because what they show on their scheduler is confusing. I think Juilliard likes to keep these things a secret so as not to scare people away! haha</p>

<p>I am only talking about class time. Not rehearsals. I am not saying any BFA student is not busy. I am more interested in what they are busy with. The schools I am interested in don’t spend as much time in theater studies and liberal arts. You would need a 34 hour day if you tried adding NYU and USC’s academic classes onto Suny Purchase’s training schedule.</p>

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<p>tenyearplan…yes, I notice that New Studio on Broadway’s freshmen curriculum (that is all that is posted so far as this coming year will only have freshmen) is about 17 hours of training per week. Yes, I wasn’t including rehearsal time either, but just pointed that out since someone gave the hours for USC theater classes and those included rehearsal time. However, New Studio, is well, new, and my remarks were about the other studios at Tisch (and you are seeking acting). My kid trained in two studios at Tisch…CAP21 and Experimental Theater Wing and the training is pretty much three full days per week with a lunch break. Two days per week are academics (which include theater studies). My recollection of the artistic training was that it was 22 hours of class time per week. The number of hours in conservatory classes at Tisch is on par with many other BFA programs. However, if you prefer mostly theater classes with very little academics, then surely pick schools like that such as UNCSA. On the other hand, you talk about if you don’t get into one of the top BFA in Acting programs, that you’ll just go to college for liberal arts. My feeling is that there is a happy medium between a top BFA conservatory and going to school for something other than theater. It seems like your college list would be two extremely different paths, when there is much in the middle of those two types of options.</p>

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<p>tenyearplan, I also think your original post has some other misconceptions. At many colleges that offer both MT and Acting, the Acting students are not nearly second class citizens but are in very strong programs in themselves. What comes readily to mind in this regard are: UMich, CCM, Ithaca, Syracuse, CMU, NYU/Tisch, and others. </p>

<p>You talk about not wanting to wait until the third year to be performing constantly but other than CMU, other schools allow you to either start performing freshmen year or sophomore year. My D was constantly performing while at Tisch. </p>

<p>Also, CMU…I can’t imagine ruling out for the reasons you gave…performance opportunities and also that they have a MT program. Also, you say they don’t prepare you for acting for the screen but they even have an LA showcase! It is an extremely well regarded acting program. </p>

<p>In my view, if you are serious about wanting to be an actor, you would not limit yourself ONLY to the tippy top BFA programs which is very chancy. Apply to them but round out the list with other competitive and fine BFA programs. How badly do you want it, in other words? Tip top school or nothing? Would you be happy studying liberal arts instead of acting? If not (and you did say even at a BFA program, you want very little liberal arts), then why not apply to a range of BFA programs so that you don’t take a risk to land at a school where ALL you study is liberal arts?</p>

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<p>One more misconception…you posted that if you don’t get admitted in the fall, you’ll go to community college and then try again in the winter. Most BFA programs do not accept students mid year for spring semester. Their curriculums are very set for the four years and you can only enter in the fall. Further, if you attend community college, you will have to apply at a transfer applicant which is WAY harder to get admitted, in what is already an extremely challenging admissions process for freshmen applicants to BFA programs.</p>

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<p>Also, are you sure about the dorms at NCSA? I don’t know the answer myself but you should check before ruling it out. I can’t imagine them making a college student, no matter the age, live in the high school dorms. </p>

<p>As a personal story, my daughter entered NYU/Tisch at age 16. She lived in the dorms. They didn’t go by her age but rather went by the fact that they chose to admit her to college at age 16. Ironically, had she gone to pre-college (she didn’t) at NYU and wanted to be housed in the dorms for the summer, she would not have been allowed as a sixteen year old. But since she was a college student, she was allowed to live in the dorms.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your usual wise and knowledgeable perspective, soozie! </p>

<p>My D’s BFA list so far is BU, CMU, Syracuse, Adelphi, Montclair State and perhaps UArts, plus UW-Milwaukee, which has the BFA option 2nd year. She has BA options as well (auditioned, like New Paltz, and not, like Bard and Lawrence U). I think it will be very difficult next year when acceptances come in, because she might - if she’s lucky - have to decide between a “top” BFA, a less prestigious BFA, and/or a BA program (for her, she still would choose to major in theater/acting I am sure). </p>

<p>Probably it would be a no-brainer for her if she got into BU, CMU or Syracuse … but maybe there would be some detail that would actually pull her toward a less prestigious program. Or - which we’re certainly prepared for - she will be deciding between an Adelphi/Montclair State BFA or a BA program. I think I could guess the answer to that, too, but you just never know when the opportunities are right in front of you (Bard vs. Montclair State? That’s a tough one…).</p>

<p>I’m speaking only for her: she doesn’t want to miss out on the BFA completely if she doesn’t make it into a prestige program. She also doesn’t want to lose her opportunity to do theater in a meaningful way, whichever the degree. Filling that “range” has been a significant goal for her - and she’s found some wonderful programs with the curriculum details she likes, at the schools without the biggest names (including senior showcases, and other important components).</p>

<p>I’m not dictating to tenyear - although I do urge you to listen to soozie, because she has the right to dictate - but I do hope you are making this choice very carefully. It eases my mind that my D is increasing her chances not only of getting a BFA that she likes, but also of studying theater AT ALL, by having this spread of options. </p>

<p>Of course there are many routes to a theater, or film, career. It’s just that you can always say no to an acceptance … but if you don’t even apply, you don’t have that privilege, and you’ve lost some significant options.</p>

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<p>soozievt - Can we get the real class schedules for the other studios at Tisch? Who would I contact to get those? Also, do you know if they accept community college classes? I don’t have a problem with taking some liberal arts classes as long as they are not redundant. </p>

<p>You misread me in thinking I said CMU doesn’t prepare you for the screen. I said I had read something about them discouraging it. I think it was NYQ12 that gave a review of his audition where he reported that they said, “Don’t come here if you want to be a film actor.” Then I noticed on their showcase page that this year’s class of seniors had hardly any film experience compared to those from some of the other schools. I don’t think anybody at Juilliard had any.</p>

<p>I am very serious about being an actor. I AM an actor! I just need more training and I want it to be full out classical training if I am going to get it in college. My feeling and my coach’s feeling is that the only schools that offer that to college students in any depth are the “tippy top” schools. That is why they are “tippy top” and the closest thing we have to British training for college students. However, I think I can get training for anything besides classical as well or better outside of college. For instance, I would love to study with Steven Book or Eric Morris if I don’t get accepted at a “Tippy Topper.” Can I change my name to that? haha</p>

<p>What I meant about the next winter is when I would audition if I don’t get accepted anywhere this time around. I know all the schools I am interested in only accept kids for fall. I would have my Associates in Liberal Arts by then and would reaudition for some of the American tippy toppers along with some British schools that are the tippy topperest of the topper tipper. My dream school is the Central School of Speech and Drama in London, but you can’t go there until you are 18 and I don’t even know if they accept Americans. I know RADA, Guildhall, LAMDA and RSAMD do. </p>

<p>I do need to check with UNCSA about the age and dorm deal before I write them off completely because the rule seems vague as it relates to me. It says, “Students entering the college program who are exceptionally young (under 17) will be required to reside in the high school halls for at least one year. Other students who are entering short of their 18th birthday (less than 9 months out) will be required to sign, along with their parents, a memorandum of understanding that outlines the conditions of their living arrangements
within the college community.” It is on page 12 of the College Life Handbook. [Powered</a> by Google Docs](<a href=“http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:daES4p4jP2AJ:www.uncsa.edu/studentlife/forms/Handbooks/CollegeHandbook-current.pdf+under+18+residence+halls&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgscHSksVXoYr4pI4XKjxip-2OBZQTPKBabKtfloTATWSofeo1oq1TBNUa_LdJAv2zVlqKkJxlQkahFQhULGi_QkolK4FW3iwMa5OSFJGam3Yd1h9NnVAtra2vkQ2sGuTknBHHl&sig=AHIEtbQHQ5h7byl_KTwil3jfFihxvrNepg]Powered”>http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:daES4p4jP2AJ:www.uncsa.edu/studentlife/forms/Handbooks/CollegeHandbook-current.pdf+under+18+residence+halls&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgscHSksVXoYr4pI4XKjxip-2OBZQTPKBabKtfloTATWSofeo1oq1TBNUa_LdJAv2zVlqKkJxlQkahFQhULGi_QkolK4FW3iwMa5OSFJGam3Yd1h9NnVAtra2vkQ2sGuTknBHHl&sig=AHIEtbQHQ5h7byl_KTwil3jfFihxvrNepg) That puts me in a gray zone since my birthday is near the end of June and college students arrive there at the beginning of September. That would make me 17 but ten months out from the start date. Your daughter would have had to live in the high school dorms had she gone there. haha </p>

<p>I need to start new threads. I feel like I am hijacking this one too much. It’s supposed to be for introductions. Sorry.</p>

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<p>Perhaps that is the deal about the dorms at NCSA. But that college is unusual as it has high school boarding students and most colleges do not. Therefore, at all the 8 BFA programs my kid auditioned at, she would have to live in the dorms as an entering 16 year old. The colleges chose to admit her at that age, which meant they felt she was ready for the entire college experience. Perhaps you could talk to NCSA about this. </p>

<p>Anyway, the idea of going to community college and then auditioning for a BFA is still something I would not encourage because as I wrote, it is MUCH more difficult odds to be admitted as a transfer student to a BFA degree program than as a freshman applicant. And due to the fact that you will have enrolled and attended another college, you automatically would be considered a transfer applicant. </p>

<p>I don’t think the actual time schedules for the NYU studios is online. Each studio’s curriculum IS online. You could talk to current students in those studios to ask the actual schedule. I’m simply saying my kid attended two studios at Tisch and they had classes ALL day three days a week for the artistic training. </p>

<p>While I believe in reaching high and striving for challenging colleges with good reputations, I don’t believe that the tippy top schools are the only ones where you can receive excellent training. I think limiting one’s college list to ONLY tippy top schools can be a recipe for potential disappointment. It is uber competitive for these BFA programs with single digit acceptance rates. In any case, in my opinion, if someone is dead set on acting training in college, it would be a mistake to only audition for tippy top programs or else. The chance of being shut out is a distinct possibility and then you don’t get to study acting AT ALL in college. I can’t imagine someone intent on actor training in college being so willing to give that up and attend community college! There was a girl on the Theater Forum this year who preferred a BFA (originally) and only tried for tippy top ones and than applied to very good BA programs. She got shut out of the BFA programs (she may have had a BFA option had she applied to a range of BFA schools), though she at least will study theater in the excellent BA program at Vassar. There is a big difference between tippy top BFA program and community college. I truly encourage you to look at options in between those two extremes. Have you examined other very well regarded BFA in Acting programs such as CCM, Ithaca, Syracuse, UMich, Emerson, etc.? I mean even regular college applicants who limit their college list to ONLY the Ivy League schools have a good chance of being shut out of college. I personally am not into the “Ivy or bust” way of thinking. I say this as a parent of a kid who did attend a “top” BFA program and another kid who attended the Ivy League. Neither limited her college list to ONLY tippy top schools, however.</p>

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<p>This is simply out of curiosity, forgive me if I’m derailing the thread. Soozievt, what makes it that much more difficult to be admitted to a BFA program as a transfer?</p>

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<p>^^^Transfer applicants are not considered in the same way as freshmen applicants. Typically, fewer slots are allocated to transfer applicants, thus making the odds even longer than the already long shot odds. </p>

<p>Added to that…please be aware that some BFA programs will not consider transfers. Some will consider them but make them start over as freshmen due to the very specialized curriculum that is outlined per year. That can mean paying for (and attending) college for more than four years. For the programs that take transfer applicants and allow them to start as sophomores or above, they will take very very few as the main way a slot would open up is if a current student leaves. Also be aware that many credits from regular college don’t transfer well into BFA programs. These are just added things to think about on top of the original point of more difficult odds for transfer applicants than freshmen applicants to BFA degree programs. For someone who gets into no programs, it would be better to take a gap year and train in the field and apply a second time (and revise the college list!!) and then be allowed to apply as a freshmen applicant. I would not do community college in between the two attempts to apply to BFA programs.</p>

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<p>Thanks Soozievt for the quick reply. I just want to offer that I’m not sure all BFA programs allocate “slots” for their incoming classes. Obviously things like diversity and a reasonable gender balance are factors, but the answer I have always heard from faculty of various training programs is that they are looking for the most unique and talented students with the most potential for success in that particular program.</p>

<p>There seems to be this whole notion of reserved spaces in programs for applicants of different varieties, as if the faculty knows what kind of people will be auditioning before they walk in the door. It came up earlier on this thread with tenyearplan’s idea that Juilliard has little room for people straight-from-high school. There might be trends, but I don’t think there are rules. Even the class sizes of the major conservatories vary slightly from year to year. I think the idea of “allocated slots” plays into the misconception that these programs know what they want before they see it, which is not necessarily true. Talent and aptitude for sure, but any teacher worth their salt knows that those two things come in many forms.</p>

<p>Different schools of course have different criteria (and as you say, for most BFA programs transfers will have to start from the beginning–the implications of that should be delicately weighed, for sure), but in my experience I’ve never heard of an applicant’s previous academic experience negatively affecting their chances of admittance. Unless, of course, that previous experience negatively affects their audition (or recommendations).</p>

<p>I want to clarify, I’m not saying this to contradict the advice that one should have a variety of programs and options in order to study what one wants to study in college. That is definitely wise.</p>

<p>Oh, and tenyearplan–regarding the British schools, you might want to do a little extra digging to make sure all of your research is up-to-date about which drama schools are currently well regarded. Like the US schools they go through fallow periods, but since we’re an ocean away it can be difficult to keep track. Central, for example, was going through a slump when I studied abroad in London in 2006. LAMDA, on the other hand, was experiencing a renewal. Maybe see if you can track down some current students/recent alumni? Also see if you can talk to some working American actors who trained abroad to get an idea of how they got their careers started in the US. It can sometimes be a disadvantage to come back to your home country with no connections.</p>

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<p>I think what SoozieVT means by “slots” for transfer is number of spaces for students entering the program at sophomore level. If a program can only accommodate 12 per class, and there are 11 continuing freshmen in the program, this could mean they only have room to accept 1 transfer at sophomore level.</p>

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<p>This is a great discussion! Please - no one should worry about “hijacking” this thread. It’s not about introductions, but about traveling this year from rising senior to high school graduate, with a variety of plans and outcomes (I hope all happy … or at least a valuable learning experience …). The introductions have been coming first, but anyone who wants to talk about any questions about the search and decision process is welcome to join in.</p>

<p>Thank you especially to everyone who has written in with experience, and especially to soozie and Kat for their professional advice.</p>

<p>We’re going to see all kinds of kids go through this year with all kinds of stories. One thing that is never assessable on these threads is a person’s “talent” - there is never any judgement on that because it’s just not something we can know. But these admissions are very subjective, and it’s not relevant to us whether someone “should” or “shouldn’t” get into a program. As “cyber-friends,” we won’t judge whether someone is shooting too high or selling themselves short. Older threads are full of people who have surprising outcomes in all kinds of ways, and people who have made hard decisions in the spring about what path to take. The story goes many mysterious ways, and that’s unlikely to change. We just all wish all of these kids can move forward in fall '11 with a plan that they are content with.</p>

<p>We’re all here to be kind, ask questions, give support, and provide information the best we can. I’m hoping the story of ‘11 will give as much help to kids coming up as previous students’ stories have given to us. Anyone who is out there - please feel free to join in, let us know who you are, and what this process is like for you. I’m hoping when next spring rolls around we’ll “know” everyone even better, and we can cheer and commiserate together with respect and caring.</p>

<p>One thing that is said constantly on CC is that it is an enormous factor in understanding college - research and visiting are very important, but so much gets brought up here that can’t be found anywhere. At the same time, even with all of this great perspective, one ultimately has to decide what is right for oneself. I really do wish everyone the best of luck this year.</p>

<p>And I’m so happy for my D right now: Last night she began her summer of theater, theater, theater, and she couldn’t be happier!</p>

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<p>gc03, you appear to have misunderstood what I meant by “slots”. It had nothing to do with type. It had all to do with what KatMT posted. If a transfer is going to come in at the sophomore level, the way to make room for that student is if freshmen have dropped out of the program (since there is a finite number of students per class in BFA programs). So, a “slot” would open up if some freshmen leave. Thus, if one freshman student leaves the program, that opens one “slot” for an incoming transfer student. Thus, I stated the odds for a transfer acceptance are much lower than for a freshman applicant. Let’s say a program has 12 students per class. Freshmen applicants are vying for 12 open slots (well, conceivably, less slots since gender and other things come into play). A transfer applicant may be vying for just one available slot in the class if the sophomore class is currently down to 11 students. I believe someone on the MT forum this year, for example, got into UCLA as a transfer MT applicant and was told only ONE slot was available for transfer applicants into the program. Hope that clarifies what I meant. It is understood by many that transfer odds into most BFA programs are lower than freshmen applicant odds. </p>

<p>EmmyBet, you are right that none of us knows any posters’ artistic talent level. I just want to clarify that even if an applicant was one of the most talented kids in the entire country, I would still strongly discourage applying to ONLY the tippy top schools, given the odds for ANYONE. I’d say this as well to the top academic students who ONLY want to apply to the tippy top colleges in the land. I have known such students who took that approach and were shut out and that is sad since they are very promising applicants who likely could have gotten into very fine programs or colleges if they had not limited themselves to ONLY the very tippy top ones and had had a more balanced list. Nobody should be shut out of college and particularly not someone with top talent (or top academics). But this is quite possible if one ONLY applies to the top schools and no other schools, given the acceptance rates. Such schools or programs turn away TOP talented students. If a BFA program takes 12 students, you can bet that there are more than 12 of super duper highly talented qualifications. That is why you see applicants who are accepted at Harvard but turned down at Yale and Princeton or accepted to the BFA at Purchase but turned down at NCSA and CMU. So, no matter the talent level of a poster on CC, I would say this to ANYONE who is applying only to schools that accept around 5% of applicants and are the tippy top ones.</p>

<p>Also…happy to hear your D is immersed in theater this summer!!</p>

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<p>Ah, I see–I actually misunderstood what you meant by “transfer.” I was working from the assumption that students transferring from other schools to a BFA program would have to automatically start over as freshmen, therefore placing them in the same talent pool. This was based on my own experience in undergrad, so obviously there was some bias at work. :slight_smile: Also, I was keeping the particular schools tenyearplan was interested in in mind, most of which are structured in that way. I didn’t take differently structured programs into account.</p>

<p>EmmyBet, you’ve done a good thing starting this thread! It will definitely be a good read for folks preparing for this process, covering a lot of ground.</p>